TOPIC: Dealers

This is my second season on this board. It was a big surprise to find that wild dry ginseng starts from $3-400/lb when it retails for $2-3000/lb in Asia for years. But even this site and hsu these dry prices are known so it's an open secret. This price gap is simply amazing.

But I think the price varies because there's a difference in the quality of the roots and the way they are dried. Some have lots of damaged roots, mixed roots,discolored roots, lots of dirt etc. What we find in medical halls are typically the choice pick and they go all the way up to $10000/lb.

So my point is that you guys must treasure your roots during your digging and handling...try to get your dealer's license to sell it online directly. I'm sure you will be richly rewarded. Chinese and Koreans literally worship ginseng especially in this age or cancer. If no ones buy from you, then just eat it for your own health.

Have a good season guys.

Guys, as a digger myself I understand how everyone is wanting to see the price climb. I Think that not much is being posted because nothing has really changed yet in terms of moving the price upward. Most of the pricing that you guys are seeing is based on 2 things. #1 - The price that the dealer knows he can move the root at today and #2 Speculation of what the price may be a little bit later. If a dealer does not have a huge cash flow then he must certainly rely more on #1. I believe this is why there has not been much posted.

Also the pricing is for mixed lots (ginseng roots that are 5 years old and up of varying degrees of quality). I can't speak for all dealers, but some including myself are willing to pay more for older better quality roots. All ginseng is not of equal value and even as dealers when we try to move it the quality of what we have to sell is being looked at as well. All diggers are not the same. Some guys want to dig every plant they come accross, some aren't very careful not to damage the roots. Some are out there that only dig very nice stuff and take great care in digging and caring for the root. My point to all of this is that when asked what are you paying per lb. most guys don't want to hear it depends on what you have.
Right now I'm paying 450/lb for a good mixed lot. I can do a little better for a really good lot, but don't ask me how much better until I actually see it.

Bottom line is that there just isn't anything new to post about prices. This may change at any time, and I hope it goes to 1000/lb, but don't have much more insight into this than any other digger. I'm more than happy to post any changes to price that occur, but just hasn't been a lot happening thus far.

Alot of Orientals have begun buying here in western NC. And from what I understand there prices are diffrent from the dealers but they gurante a market even when the dealers market is low or buying stops completely. Most of these people are individual collectors so most only buy a few pounds. But Iam sure if you guys in other states check around they are there also. Try the oriental dinners and business. Just be careful and always weigh your sang first. REMINDER, try the us post office, there scales never lie and most postal employes are happy to weigh it for you. By the way $490 basic buyers, $500 select buyers today in estern nc.

5prong wrote:

Guys, as a digger myself I understand how everyone is wanting to see the price climb. I Think that not much is being posted because nothing has really changed yet in terms of moving the price upward. Most of the pricing that you guys are seeing is based on 2 things. #1 - The price that the dealer knows he can move the root at today and #2 Speculation of what the price may be a little bit later. If a dealer does not have a huge cash flow then he must certainly rely more on #1. I believe this is why there has not been much posted.

Also the pricing is for mixed lots (ginseng roots that are 5 years old and up of varying degrees of quality). I can't speak for all dealers, but some including myself are willing to pay more for older better quality roots. All ginseng is not of equal value and even as dealers when we try to move it the quality of what we have to sell is being looked at as well. All diggers are not the same. Some guys want to dig every plant they come accross, some aren't very careful not to damage the roots. Some are out there that only dig very nice stuff and take great care in digging and caring for the root. My point to all of this is that when asked what are you paying per lb. most guys don't want to hear it depends on what you have.
Right now I'm paying 450/lb for a good mixed lot. I can do a little better for a really good lot, but don't ask me how much better until I actually see it.

Bottom line is that there just isn't anything new to post about prices. This may change at any time, and I hope it goes to 1000/lb, but don't have much more insight into this than any other digger. I'm more than happy to post any changes to price that occur, but just hasn't been a lot happening thus far.

5prong is dead on. There isn't much going on yet. Dealers might still lose money on the stuff they are buying. I've had dealers already tell me they have more money in their ginseng than I can pay them for it.

Also, I mean no disrespect to anyone here, but I always have to wonder which posters are actually dealers trying to give themselves good PR by posting a high dollar figure or some other quality about themselves under a different user name.

Another thing you should consider, is that lots with small or damaged things, really bring down the price. Small or damaged roots are worth about 50%. So, if there is a lot of one pound which has 5% really nice, large roots, 50% average roots, but 45% small or damaged, that lot isn't worth $450. In reality, it might break down like this
.05 x $465 = 23.25
.50 x $450 = 225.00
.45 x $225 = 101.25
Total actual value $349.50

But, in reality what normally happens? The dealer gives the person $435 or so for the lot because he wants to keep the digger's business. We can do this because we are looking for average prices. I might buy someones sang and its all pretty descent at $450-460. The next guy might have little or no damage at all but average root. The guy after that might have a higher percentage of small or damaged stuff. I just have to keep in mind that while the good stuff can bring that lot value up when in quantity, it also brings down the better stuff I have.

So, when 5prong, myself and others are hesitant to give you a definate price without seeing what you have, it is because of what 5 said --because it just depends. The best solution is to quote a price on average original lots and pay a bit of a premium for better stuff to encourage that type of digging, and discount the lots from diggers who are less caring about what they are doing.

I really did expect the market to break downward a little by now. But, it hasn't. So, as long as I reasonably believe I can sell what I have without losing anything, I'll keep buying at a $450 average until something happens.

lets try this scenario,a dealer buy's a pound and a quarter of root from a digger..gives the digger 400 bucks for the lot..this buyers ,buyer, comes and hand picks 4 big roots out of that lot weighing 1 oz. apiece and pays the buyer 100 bucks apiece for those big quality roots ,400 bucks..now the original buyer is left with 1 pound of pure profit.don't matter if the price go's up or down. that pound he has left is all profit..does not matter if the price go's up or down because the pound he has left is already payed for from the sale of the 4 big roots..

Chieftain wrote:

lets try this scenario,a dealer buy's a pound and a quarter of root from a digger..gives the digger 400 bucks for the lot..this buyers ,buyer, comes and hand picks 4 big roots out of that lot weighing 1 oz. apiece and pays the buyer 100 bucks apiece for those big quality roots ,400 bucks..now the original buyer is left with 1 pound of pure profit.don't matter if the price go's up or down. that pound he has left is all profit..does not matter if the price go's up or down because the pound he has left is already payed for from the sale of the 4 big roots..

That's the stuff fantasy romance novels are made of Chieftain!

We need the big stuff in the lot to sell the rest of it. Seriously.

BCastle wrote:

Chieftain wrote:

lets try this scenario,a dealer buy's a pound and a quarter of root from a digger..gives the digger 400 bucks for the lot..this buyers ,buyer, comes and hand picks 4 big roots out of that lot weighing 1 oz. apiece and pays the buyer 100 bucks apiece for those big quality roots ,400 bucks..now the original buyer is left with 1 pound of pure profit.don't matter if the price go's up or down. that pound he has left is all profit..does not matter if the price go's up or down because the pound he has left is already payed for from the sale of the 4 big roots..

That's the stuff fantasy romance novels are made of Chieftain!

We need the big stuff in the lot to sell the rest of it. Seriously.

.........so If i understand you then there is no hand picking or sorting out of any of the big roots to sell separate.. ..ok then if your just selling for weight the size of the root shouldn't matter then if it took 500 roots to make a pound or 5 roots to make that pound ,it shouldn't be graded for size..is that correct??????

Chief, I am pretty sure extra nice roots such as very old, perfect color, size etc. are hand picked and sold seperatly in a lot they can get a lot more for. If some of the dealers are not doing this they are missing a great opportunity, because some do.

No, that's not correct either.

First, I appreciate your inquiries. I mean no disrespect or contempt at all with any of my comments.

When ginseng is sold here, it generally goes to professional graders and is in turn resold where an end user can purchase lots that are all the same quality and size.

But, when a buyer buys the ginseng, he or she expects to see that top 5% in the lot, and they expect to see no more than maybe 20 or 30% small or damaged roots. If the percentages are out of whack, the value of the lot changes. If they can, as you suggest, sell the top 5% for $1600/lb why would they pay as much for a lot that is missing that top 5%? The same goes for higher percentages of damaged or small root. Yes, there might be a large variance in prices here and in the Asian market. But remember, if they do not want to pay us anything, our ginseng is worth NOTHING. If ginseng here is selling for $450-500 for good lots that has the top 5% and only 20% lows, why would they still pay the same price if the top is missing and the low end is in high percentages? It just doesn't make any sense from the buying side of things.

Now, I cannot say that cherry picking doesn't happen, because I believe it does. But, cherry picking generally is the process of picking out no more than the top 5% of the lot so as to only pay for very best quality roots (even at a higher price). As I have already said, the problem with what you are suggesting is that this practice causes the price of the entire lot to go down. It causes the top 5% to be missing, and raises the percentages of the middle and low quality roots in the lot.

In order to sell a collection of ginseng at a profitable average, I must first buy it right and second sell it right. In order to get the highest possible prices, I must have that top 5% in the lot and keep the lows down to a reasonable percentage. I cannot do that if I cherry pick the lots. Trust me, I have a buyer who will buy them that way above market value, but then what happens to my average when I can't sell the rest of the lot at going market value? I lose money is what happens.

Another problem with your scenario is that you are suggesting the prices paid for that top 5% graded/picked root is so much higher that it pays for the costs cherry picking has on the average pricing. But, it doesn't. In order for me to sell the other 95 pounds at a modest profit, that five pounds of cream had better be in the barrel. I saw one small lot of left over last year sell for $200 LESS than market price because the good stuff wasn't there. So, if I were to sell the five pounds at $150 over cost (example only), that would be a $750 bonus on the five pounds. But, if I can only sell the remaining 95 pounds for even $10 less per pound, I lose $950.

Does that make sense?

BCastle wrote:

No, that's not correct either.

First, I appreciate your inquiries. I mean no disrespect or contempt at all with any of my comments.

When ginseng is sold here, it generally goes to professional graders and is in turn resold where an end user can purchase lots that are all the same quality and size.

But, when a buyer buys the ginseng, he or she expects to see that top 5% in the lot, and they expect to see no more than maybe 20 or 30% small or damaged roots. If the percentages are out of whack, the value of the lot changes. If they can, as you suggest, sell the top 5% for $1600/lb why would they pay as much for a lot that is missing that top 5%? The same goes for higher percentages of damaged or small root. Yes, there might be a large variance in prices here and in the Asian market. But remember, if they do not want to pay us anything, our ginseng is worth NOTHING. If ginseng here is selling for $450-500 for good lots that has the top 5% and only 20% lows, why would they still pay the same price if the top is missing and the low end is in high percentages? It just doesn't make any sense from the buying side of things.

Now, I cannot say that cherry picking doesn't happen, because I believe it does. But, cherry picking generally is the process of picking out no more than the top 5% of the lot so as to only pay for very best quality roots (even at a higher price). As I have already said, the problem with what you are suggesting is that this practice causes the price of the entire lot to go down. It causes the top 5% to be missing, and raises the percentages of the middle and low quality roots in the lot.

In order to sell a collection of ginseng at a profitable average, I must first buy it right and second sell it right. In order to get the highest possible prices, I must have that top 5% in the lot and keep the lows down to a reasonable percentage. I cannot do that if I cherry pick the lots. Trust me, I have a buyer who will buy them that way above market value, but then what happens to my average when I can't sell the rest of the lot at going market value? I lose money is what happens.

Another problem with your scenario is that you are suggesting the prices paid for that top 5% graded/picked root is so much higher that it pays for the costs cherry picking has on the average pricing. But, it doesn't. In order for me to sell the other 95 pounds at a modest profit, that five pounds of cream had better be in the barrel. I saw one small lot of left over last year sell for $200 LESS than market price because the good stuff wasn't there. So, if I were to sell the five pounds at $150 over cost (example only), that would be a $750 bonus on the five pounds. But, if I can only sell the remaining 95 pounds for even $10 less per pound, I lose $950.

Does that make sense?

...first, thank you for taking the time to respond,your explanation of the the break down of larger roots to smaller roots in a lot does make sense to me..now down to the brass tacks of it...not you as a buyer or any buyer that you know,but a hypothetical buyer ,on one pound of seng bought last year early in the year[sept.]bought cheap at lets say 300 for our hypothetical pound ,.then the price skyrocket..what would you say a modest profit on that pound of seng would have been?...see I'm not against a buyer making money on that pound..but lets say if he makes 500 on that pound..me as a digger, would think he is making to much and I should be getting part of that modest profit..now as far as seng ever being worth nothing ,that just ain't going to happen,see the demand in the Asian market is ever growing, not shrinking.I don't believe the demand for wild seng will ever go to nothing till the last seng plant in North America is dug and then sold ...Castle I'm not try to be a smart azz, and I am enjoying our talk here on the seng,again I thank you for your time and explanation on the root..your the only buyer on here that seems willing to talk about your end of the business..never have met you,but find you very knowledgeable on your end of it...if you lived closer I would sure let you look at my seng when it came time to sell.thank you...