TOPIC: Discussion of Definitions Wild, Wild Sim, Woods Grown etc

Great posts guys.

Latt, I don't want more regulation either, and agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm not asking for these definitions to be regulated or legalized. I am only suggesting we as an industry define a difference between ginseng grown with artificial growth producing substances (fertilizers) vs that which is not.

BCastle,
I know what you mean and it was not directed at anyone in particular. Just a general statement or food for thought.
Thanks,
Latt

I think that this discussion is very good, agree with much of what's been said, and am glad to see many others here are thinking clearly about their individual approaches. It's what I like this forum so much!

Here in NC... the 2011 revisions to the law don't say too much about endangered status, however someone in the NC Dept of Ag looked real closely at the manner and origins of seeds/plants, and changed language accordingly.

For instance, I have to document my \"imports\" of rootlets and gensing seeds. When I sell [one day many years from now] I now have to have a \"dealers permit\" and everything I sell is subject to inspection. [Inspection means many thngs, doesn't it?] These two things are apparently major differences from the previous regulation. Also, now, on private land, you cannot harvest outside the season. Previously you could. there are other new regs as well.

The point others have made about documenting what you put in the ground Is well taken! I think that should our favorite crop go to endangered status... we will need this.

I submitted the 2011 revisions to Mike here at Wildgrown.com, however I guess that he has not had the time to revise the NC Laws section yet. What's here on the website are the old regs.

I see alot of people believe that look is what determines the roots origins, especialy when they want to sell it. No buyer comments though,interesting.So for those whom I speak, I would like to sell you some gold, some real some not so real but all at the same price, right, it looks the same....

In the past it was to difficult to find out the truth how a specific batch was grown,or it's origin because of the lure of the all mighty buck.In other words our inherent need to lie or mislead for ones own gain, we all have it, that little voice that says, this guy don't know, or this guy can't see it.All for a few extra bucks. ALL IS GOOD AS LONG AS THEY DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH, but now the truth is easy to find.Origin of seed and how it was grown, all from a simple test. Here's something funny, this test was developed to protect us from the unscrupulous in the herbal medicine trade.Go figure!?!

Ginseng is one of the most expensive Chinese herbal medicines and the effectiveness of ginseng depends strongly on its botanical sources and the use of different parts of the plants. In this study, a microchip electrophoresis method coupled with the polymerase chain reaction (PCR)?short tandem repeats (STR) technique was developed for rapid authentication of ginseng species. A low viscosity hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) solution was used as the sieving matrix for separation of the amplified STR fragments. The allele sizing of the amplified PCR products could be detected within 240 s or less. Good reproducibility and accuracy of the fragment size were obtained with the relative standard deviation for the allele sizes less than 1.0% (n=11). At two microsatellite locations, American ginseng had a different allele pattern on the electropherograms compared with that of the Oriental ginseng. Moreover, cultivated and wild American ginseng can be distinguished on the basis of allele sizing. This work establishes the feasibility of fast genetic authentication of ginseng species by use of microchip electrophoresis.

Alleles, in layman terms are compareable to your cousins the more you have the more like field grown you are, the more diverse you are. The ability to breed and get more cousins is increased in an over crowded enviroment. But by that stream up on that secluded mountain the three hundred ginseng plants that have been there for hundreds of years will all be direct family members with no cousins. Little diversity, except to the conditions they grow in.

For those who think the truth is in the buyers eyes.

Great topic...
Guy

Hey Guy,
What category would my ginseng be. I have a mixture of truly wild ginseng and bought seed from different states even from my home state of KY. All this has been growing naturally over 16 years. It's not thick but spread out over 15 acres.

rootman

The wild would be just that and the rest would fall under some form of wild simulated.

Guy

So the so called \"Presumably Wild\" that has grown naturally in the wild derived from unknown origins is better than that of the seed planted thinly throughout the woods and left to mother natures wild conditions? I understand that the seed planted is classified as \"Wild Simulated\" but I do not see how anyone would be misleading anyone if they dug the roots up that have been planted there 16 years earlier and left to mother natures devices and sold them.
I respect anyone's opinion that differs from mine and I am sure there are many. However, I am also convinced that those \"Presumably Wild\" plants have originated or are offspring from a hand planted seed at one point in time .
This is the \"Chicken or the Egg\" senario, and a topic we have agreed to disagree on a lot lately. So please excuse me in advance for bringing it up again.
Latt

Latt

\"So the so called \"Presumably Wild\" that has grown naturally in the wild derived from unknown origins is better than that of the seed planted thinly throughout the woods and left to mother natures wild conditions? \"

I am not saying what is better, just suggesting that we need to own up and properly label our produce, because if we don't someone else is going to.

As previously written a fast and simple PCR test is now available and CITES now is using a molecular test of some sort, to tell the origin of the roots.

You all wonder why you only get 400 to 500 bucks for your wild, it's because only 10% to 30% of what is sold as wild really is wild and the customer knows this!

Latt it's not a chicken or egg senario it's a question of integrity and honesty. Things are what they are. Do you realize you are growing a medicinal product and your only concerns are does it look like something it is not so I can make an extra buck?

What is wrong with telling the truth ... this is wild simulated, this is woods grown, this is wild.

In the near future you will be scrambling to prove it's not from wild origin.

Guy

So presumably, various wild roots gathered from different areas where one may live were to be replanted in a seed production bed would test as cultivated once a root was grown from the seed after a couple generations had past due to its parental diversity rather than a straight lineage. It makes sense. That diversity would never happen in the wild without human intervention. I cannot see this as something to be concerned with unless every other guy out there with a tract of land starts planting wild sim and the market is then flooded with presumably wild root and its brought into question by the chinese consumer.

Hillhopper

BCastle wrote:

Great posts guys.

Latt, I don't want more regulation either, and agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm not asking for these definitions to be regulated or legalized. I am only suggesting we as an industry define a difference between ginseng grown with artificial growth producing substances (fertilizers) vs that which is not.

BCastle, I'm not disagreeing with what you have posted, but perhaps as an industry we also should define a difference between ginseng grown with the help of fungicides and that which is not.
What is everyone's opinion on this?