TOPIC: Ginseng Poaching Featuered on CBS This Morning Program

BCastle wrote:

Commerce clause. Need I say more?


Frank, I'm actively looking into the requirements to get a group off the ground. I think we need to start with the basics, which are the issues faced by small growers. The list you posted include some retailers also. Others have nothing to do with the issues faced by growers vs administrative action.

I'll post on this again once I have a decent handle of what will be required and what the next step would be.

Brad,

I understand that some of these really have nothing to do with issues faced by growers vs administrative actions. However, I believe that with the help of some of these, we can obtain the scientific and technical information and facts that we need in educating the politicians and public and the ammunintion to fight any adverse Legislation or Laws. Also, through any and all of these, we may be able to obtain Grants and/or donations to start, maintain and promote our' organization.


Frank

Frank,

The first hurdle is to determine what it will take to be recognized by the administrative agencies with which we would need to interact. Secondly, we need to get folks out of the shadows and on paper. That isn't going to happen in a straightforward manner. I am looking into the possibility of a group/association which maintains membership, but complete anonymity of its members. This causes some legitimacy concerns for the administrative folks.

If we can't get past this, the issues of dealers and diggers really won't help much to get anything off the ground. We need the growers to show the reality of how much we help the species. If we can't do this with growers first because they are the ones who will have better standing to be heard, well, I don't see where anything would matter at that point.


Lenno, Yes, I've often said we should ban heroin and meth so the bad guys couldn't get them. ....they think it will work with guns though right?

Seriously...I know there will be a black market. However, who is willing to face federal prosecution for smuggling an endangered CITES II plant?

(that won't be a weekend in the county hotel either)

Brad, It seems like some of the bigger, well known growers might be the best place to start. They would potentially have the most to lose if the laws were changed where they couldn't sell their woodsgrown ginseng.

And yes, taking our guns will solve everything:lol:

I believe that we should not just rely on the Ginseng Growers all inclusive to help us get a voice with the government agencies and corporations that matter. The folks at Wild Ginseng Conservation are already promoting good Wild Ginseng Stewardship and are already working with Diggers of Wild Ginseng as well as Ginseng Growers. I would imagine that they already have a good idea as to our plight but if not, it probably would not take much to get them to understand. Considering the amount of studies they conduct and put into writing and all of the programs that they are apparently interested in or are running, I would imagine that they already have the ears of many politicians, organizations and corporations and can help us get a foot in the door. If we can organize and get the respect and consideration of many of these different organizations, most which have interests in conserving Wild Ginseng and maintaing a market for it and other organizations with interests in protecting their' growing and selling of Wild-Simulated and Woodsgrown Ginseng, then this will invariably give us a voice that will be heard by those who count.

I for one believe in and will stand up for the rights of the citizens to keep and bear arms as provided in the \"Second Amendment to the United States Constitution\"! Besides that, I believe that my' 5 years, 4 months and 4 days of Service to this Country in the U.S. Army should also grant me that right. However, if that is not enough, then the Service of my great-great-great-great-great grandfather, Francis Winstead revwarapps.org/s3607.pdf , who served as a Minuteman in the Revolutionary War and last held the rank of First Sergeant, should grant me that right.


Frank

Frank,

I believe all who have served have done so in order to preserve the rights recognized in our Constitution.

I see your point with the other groups, however, the real deal rubber meets the road issue is IF the small growers will be willing to stand up and speak up...if we cannot do it anonymously then otherwise. If they won't, I don't see a shot in hell of making this anything functional. Likewise, we/you/me go talking to groups without getting our groundwork laid first, and ...well first impressions you know. We need the small growers on board first to see if this thing is even viable at this point in time.

i am willing to bet the people who are pushing to ban wild ginseng harvest have never dug ginseng and do not have any idea what they are saying,just maybe the cultivated growers are pushing in hope to make field grown ginseng more marketable,remember they have seen a big decline in the price!i have been saving all paper work that has to do with ginseng sales and seed purchase,i may need this later down the road.

i am willing to bet the people who are pushing to ban wild ginseng harvest have never dug ginseng and do not have any idea what they are saying,just maybe the cultivated growers are pushing in hope to make field grown ginseng more marketable,remember they have seen a big decline in the price!i have been saving all paper work that has to do with ginseng sales and seed purchase,i may need this later down the road.

i am willing to bet the people who are pushing to ban wild ginseng harvest have never dug ginseng and do not have any idea what they are saying,just maybe the cultivated growers are pushing in hope to make field grown ginseng more marketable,remember they have seen a big decline in the price!i have been saving all paper work that has to do with ginseng sales and seed purchase,i may need this later down the road.

Yellowscarf,

I agree with you that many who are in the administrative positions to make determinations on the future of wild ginseng harvest may not have ever dug ginseng themselves. However, that is precisely the point I'm trying to make to you all. Not only do they not understand you, but you don't often understand them either. In many cases, the administrative folks do the best they can with what they do know. It is up to us to get them better information based on what we know. The problem is that it must be done in a way they can understand. That means you either need to think and talk administrative things, or you need someone on your side who does. The kicker is that whomever does the talking, needs to have a legitimate voice in the eyes of those administrative folks which will allow them to listen and take action in relation to that voice.

Remember how ticked everyone is about that dealer in the CBS thing? Well, that is sort of what I\"m talking about. Most administrators are more careful than to listen to one person who is out of sync with everyone else in an industry. That is why we need to be able to show a membership of small growers who have always been overlooked for the most part before now.

I think you are being wise to keep your records of your plantings. However, understand that if wild and wild sim are banned from export, all the paperwork in the world might not matter. We are virtually a stroke of a pen away from that reality I think. I don't think we are that close to it happening, but that is all it would take to end wild harvest. I suggest you keep a bag of fungicide at hand just in case your planted ginseng needs a molecular marker of some chemical to prove it is cultivated if things should go bad.



As for the cultivated prices, I dont' think that matters at all. And frankly, those prices are soaring at the moment. Cultivated in Ontario a year ago was going for about $28 or so a pound. Now, it is being sold in the field at about $50 or more. I don't think the cultivated farmers have anything to do with the restrictions and administrative action against small growers. After all, from their perspective, there are not enough small growers with which to be concerned, and if you are selling 100lbs a year that ins't enough to even consider. Those guys are harvesting maybe 4000-6000 pounds per acre.

Brad,

I can understand your reasoning for trying to organize the small growers of Ginseng but don't forget, they are not the only ones with a lot to lose if adverse Legislation or Laws are enacted! The Diggers have a lot to lose as well as those folks that are Diggers/Small Time Growers. Even most of us Diggers that don't have land with established plots of Ginseng growing on them, still plant Wild Seed and Wild Simulated seeds in the areas where we are allowed to harvest, so you see, we all have interests in this and all should be included from the start. Yeah, I know that it will be hard to get many of the Diggers and many of the Small Time Growers onboard including those that may be Diggers and Small Time Growers as well as many have distrust of others and especially those in government and/or other high places (i.e Universities, Research Groups, Conservation Groups, etc.). However, we need as many folks as possible from both of these groups, if we ever hope to make this work!


Frank