TOPIC: Ginseng Poaching Featuered on CBS This Morning Program

Nice post Frank, I think you hit the nail on the head! There is more to that story then meets the eye:angry:

The buyer said that \"90% of the sang he buys is poached because if he doesn't buy it someone down the road will\" is a prime example of where the REAL problem stems from.

If someone comes to me and has a bunch of stuff for sale and I feel that it's stolen do I still buy it because if I don't someone else will????? NO!!!!! I find out who the guy is and turn him in.

I know that buyers can't tell where sang comes from but, they surely to hell can tell if it was spring or summer dug.

We also must understand that the Liberal media (yeah, I'm sure I'm going to be labeled a crazy) found exactly the buyer that they NEEDED to make their case. Between the media, liberal tree huggers and the government got getting enough taxes from the hands all the sang goes through legal sang digging is going to become a thing of the past.

Yup, I'm right w/ ya. I remember a few years back someone posted an article some lib wrote. He was from Harvard or some such nonsense claiming that there was only 17 known wild ginseng spots left in Vermont. What an azzzz. I know at least 50 in my county. He probably came up here in his berkenstocks, walked on the Long Trail for ten minutes, talked to a couple fellow tree huggers, proclaimed seng to be endangered here, and wrote the article.
These guys can't tell the truth to save their lives!

I've not read that yet, but you all make some incredibly common sense arguments. As I've said before, and is apparently completely laid bare in this story by CBS, the key to this is administrative action and influence. As Frank and KYginseng say, they just don't get it. I\"m suggesting that they don't get it because no one from our side of the line has promoted the issue in a way they (the administrative folks) can understand it. Unfortunately, I think KYginseng and Frank are also right in that regard, and the time to lay back in the shadows is drawing to a close.

I\"ll look into some things and see what it would actually take to get a growers group off the ground.

Great posts everyone! It shows that there is concern among all of us about this CBS Report, concern about the future of Ginseng, about poachers and concern for the need to write and give out books to these folks, called \"Ginseng Facts for Dummies\".

One of the concerns that was stated in the CBS Report was that nearly all of North America's Wild Ginseng goes to Asia (mainly China), where most of it stays. Oh yeah, the grind up a 99.99 percent batch of their' crap Ginseng, add 0.01 percent of Panax quinquefolius (North American Wild Ginseng), put it into capsules and boxes and sell the stuff back to us as real Panax quinquefolius! We not only need to organize the growers to educate and save North American Wild Ginseng from poachers, from extinction but also from the Chinese that exploit it and us but also need to organize growers, diggers and buyers alike into one powerful organization that can affect change. Some folks are aware while other are not, of the fact that a pound of dried Wild Ginseng that a digger is paid say $700 for, is sold by the Ginseng Dealer to a Ginseng Buyer (this may or may not be an Exporter or Importer) for say $750 to $800 a pound. The Ginseng Buyer (if not an Exporter or Importer) probably gets paid $900 to $1,100 a pound (I am just guessing as this information is not searchable on the worldwide web) by an Exporter or Importer. When this same pound of Wild Ginseng reaches China, the Importers are probably getting $3,000 to $5,000 or more from Vendors who sell this on the street and in shops and the Vendors is probably getting 20% to 50% more from customers. Why do we continue to let the Chinese and other Asian Importers exploit our' North American Wild Ginseng? We all, Diggers, Ginseng Dealers and Ginseng Growers should be getting a larger cut of the take, since we are the ones that do 90% of the labor! Just another thought (not Ginseng root) to chew on!


Frank

Frank,

Most of your posts are dripping with common sense. However, that last one wasn't! In all seriousness, speculating about profits and prices where there is no objective evidence is doing nothing but stirring up bad feelings rather than focusing on what we can do to fix the apparent issues we face.

Let's just stick to what we know as fact. That way, we don't have to unravel what was speculated on previously and reported as fact. Just as that ginseng buyer in the CBS report seems to be 180 degrees out of sinc with everyone else who knows what they are talking about, his subjective opinion will be championed by someone somewhere as 'what we know.'

I truly believe that the guy or gal who makes the most money on a pound of ginseng is the digger who harvested it. Certainly, that figure is challenged by the retail dealers on the other end, but their costs of doing business is more than a tank of gas and a day in the woods too.

I think as a community of like minded individuals, we have an opportunity here to develop a voice for the ginseng diggers and growers. Lets stick to common sense and fact, and not do anything which might tarnish our ability to move forward.

b

I have been digging ginseng for about 30 years and since my start people have been predicting the extinction of ginseng in America. The book \"Ginseng and Other Medicinal Plants\" by Harding was written in 1908 and it suggested that ginseng had been 'dug out' and the future was not bright.
Nearly everyone's opinion that is in print is that ginseng is decreasing at an alarming rate, especially governmental studies and officials who have a hand in the laws governing ginseng.

I find more ginseng now than 10, 20, or 30 years ago. It is true that there is not as much ginseng habitat as there used to be but that is not because of over digging, but the laws are all pointed to the digger or buyer and do not have an impact on habitat loss.

Ginseng populations can be reduced in a given area by over digging but it won't be eliminated. If you go to a woods a couple of times looking for sang and do not find any or very little you probably won't return, eventually everyone looses interest in that area and the few plants surviving reproduce and patches form again. Logged areas are another example, you can't get in them for several years and the increased sunlight makes a lot of berries and rapid growth.

Given any decent woods I would bet that I could find some ginseng in it 99% of the time, would it be worth going into for a couple of ounces, probably not, but that is what will keep ginseng surviving. It will never be as common as dandelions in your yard, but if it was it would be worth about as much as dandelion root.

It is my opinion that more government regulation would hurt, not help ginseng, right now Kentucky has laws that interfere and restrict the growing of ginseng. It makes no distinction between wild and cultivated, that's like telling a corn farmer when he can plant and harvest and sell his crop.

BCastle wrote:

Frank,

Most of your posts are dripping with common sense. However, that last one wasn't! In all seriousness, speculating about profits and prices where there is no objective evidence is doing nothing but stirring up bad feelings rather than focusing on what we can do to fix the apparent issues we face.

Let's just stick to what we know as fact. That way, we don't have to unravel what was speculated on previously and reported as fact. Just as that ginseng buyer in the CBS report seems to be 180 degrees out of sinc with everyone else who knows what they are talking about, his subjective opinion will be championed by someone somewhere as 'what we know.'

I truly believe that the guy or gal who makes the most money on a pound of ginseng is the digger who harvested it. Certainly, that figure is challenged by the retail dealers on the other end, but their costs of doing business is more than a tank of gas and a day in the woods too.

I think as a community of like minded individuals, we have an opportunity here to develop a voice for the ginseng diggers and growers. Lets stick to common sense and fact, and not do anything which might tarnish our ability to move forward.

b

Brad,

I grant you that some of the pricing I quoted on our end (i.e. what everyone involved with digging, selling, buying and re-selling Ginseng in North America gets paid) was just guessing. However, I believe that the prices that Chinese Importers and Chinese Vendors/Sellers get per pound of Wild North American Ginseng, are pretty much in line and may be even too low! I have watched quite a few video documentaries about the Ginseng Market in China and Asia and the prices that I quoted were some the prices that were mentioned in the videos.

I know that some folks don't want to rock the boat as the Chinese are the biggest Buyers of our' North American Wild Ginseng (in other words, the bread and butter that feeds eveyone invloved with it)! However, I see no reason why we would not want to get a bigger share of the take based on what the Chinese make. Sure, the Importers may raise their' prices but someone in China or elsewhere in Asia will pay it.

Yes, our biggest concern is with the CBS Report and what might happen because of it and because of what the mis-informed might do. However, in addressing the tasks at hand (saving Wild Ginseng, stopping poachers, stopping the harvesting of Wild Ginseng from becoming outlawed, educating the politicians and the public and rallying them to our cause), I see no reason why we can't work on the disparity of money exchanged, one little step at a time!


Frank

I think the idea of a growers group is a great one. Not just to pool Sang for a better price but to lobby for the diggers as well. Here in NC I am hearing a lot about documentation of cultivated from our AG extension. Why I believe a lot of that may be blowing there horn about diversified agriculture in their districts, I wonder if there is not more coming down the pipeline at us. I do not report any cultivated however am keeping tight records on what I do plant. If the time comes that the source must be proven or wild is effectively outlawed I do not want to be behind the eight ball.

Also in relation to poaching the new USFS restrictive permitting seems to encourage it in my eyes. I personally would never poach, I am not going to jail and can not afford fines and can only assure that by not. The new regs. will not stop the poachers though. In fact it will cause them to get in and get out. No one in their right mind would sit around and plant seeds and and leave any behind if time was of the essence and they thought they would be fined or jailed if caught. These poachers know the future of this $ is the future of Ginseng. But regs. prevent their mind from grasping that and stewarding the plant into something sustainable if they are rushing for fear of fines or jail.