TOPIC: 3-leafers GALORE ! 04/28/2011

Guys

If you have seed that not germinating, you should crack several open to determin if the seed was stratified or not. If the embryo is just a little dot then it is green seed. If the embryo has filled out more than half the length of the seed, then it is stratified but may be dormant.

Here's what Bob Beyfuss posted earlier on this forum:

\" Ginseng has evolved a survival/reproduction mechanism that allows for seed germination one, two, three and even four years after the berries ripen depending upon environmental conditions in the year the berries were formed as well as the next few years.\"


Here is also some from the Canada Growers manual:

\" One way to check whether seeds are developing well is to measure the embryo. Split the seed along the suture line. The embryo is in a sack at the micropyle end of the seed (the pore end). A well-developed embryo at the time of planting should be about 2-3 mm long. The embryo will grow over the winter and will be about 5mm at the time of germination. If the embryo is less than 2mm in length it may not germinate next spring but the spring after, if diseases have not broken it down by then.\"

If it was my seeds not germinating, I would check the seeds to determin if they are green or bad statified seeds or good stratified seed that are dormant.


This is what Beyfuss said about seed sources:

\"My advice is to find a seed supplier that provides you with good seed consistently and stick with them!\"

I have found the seeds I buy from Hsu's has germinated well every year.

I would be frustrated if he sent me good seeds one year and bad seeds the next. Hsu has been consistent in quality.

classicfur

Hey Guys,

I did not even consider that the seed I had bad results with could have been green or dormant.

Larry said he got it out of his special \"wild strain\" stash (most of what he sells is shade grown cultivated) - but if you ask for the \"wild strain\" he will sell that to you but you have to ask for it or you will get shade grown cultivated seed.

If there was some mixup and I got green seed, or possibly stratified seed that is dormant, that could explain why only a small fraction came up this year.

Next time I am down in that hollow I will check and see what the seeds look like.

I may go back down there this morning and check. We had a BUNCH of rain a day or two ago and it has been a little cooler but sunny since then - makes me think I might have a chance of finding a morel mushroom today. I would sure love to do that.

Thanks

TNhunter

Oh well - spent a few more hours looking for morels - in that same area that I found that little black morel earlier and found nothing today but a few other types of shrooms - no morels.

I must conclude that it is simply too late, too hot here now for morels.

I did swing by my new planting site and from one of those beds where I had very low germination I scratched around and found 4 seeds.

All 4 were nicely burried about 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep in some nice top soil and none showed signs of cracking (smiling), no tails, they were solid and when split open they were white inside.

Below is a up close pic.

What do you all think ?

Was I sold green seed ?

Or have these been stratified but are remaining dormant for some reason ?

I don't really see anything that looks like a embryo...

Thanks

TNhunter

Classicfur,

On this part...

==
\"My advice is to find a seed supplier that provides you with good seed consistently and stick with them!\"

I have found the seeds I buy from Hsu's has germinated well every year.

I would be frustrated if he sent me good seeds one year and bad seeds the next. Hsu has been consistent in quality.
==

No doubt there are lots of folks that can say they have bought seed from Hardings year after year and got good seed, good germination every time.

I just had the (bad luck) of making one purchase (one pound) and got bad seed, or green seed, or seed that just did not sprout this year for some reason...

And I talked one of my buddies into splitting that pound with me so his first planting is going to be sort of a sour experience.
That half pound was all he planted - so he is going to have some disapointing results this year.

Guess that could happen to anyone - it happened to me.

I am sure glad I bought seed from other sources that did well and only planted 1/2 pound of this seed from Hardings.

I guess the good news is that seed may survive until next spring and sprout and do Ok then.

We'll see.

TNhunter

TNhunter

It's very hard to see the embryo in photos. But if you look at your seeds carefully, you will see the outline of the embryo. It is a slight off white color compared to the bright white color of the pulp around it. If it is stratified correctly it should be almost the whole length of the seed by now. As the seed sprouts the embryo starts pushing out the end of the seed shell to form the little root.

I killed a seedling so everyone can see about how big the embryo should be, atleast at this time of year in Maine. I took a fine point marker and colored the embryo black. I tried to find a seed that was the least developed. This is the best I found.

TNhunter

I agree with your thought about buying from several sources.

But after buying seeds from Paul Hsu for the past seven years without any problems on his part, I will continue to buy seeds from him. But after thinking more about this, if he sent me just one bad batch of seeds, I would split my next order between Hsu and some other seed supplier.

If I was in your shoes, I would do just as you said.

And I feel for your buddy, having planted seeds from just one supplier. If he had several sources he would atleast have some success.

classicfur

Hey Guys

Found A nice Yellow Spotted Salamander in my yard this morning. It was about 7\" long.

Hey Classicfur....

Looks like that would make some decent small mouth bass bait !

On the embryo - I did not see anything like that in those 4 seeds I found and split open. Just looked clear white inside to me.

But I did remember taking a picture of the seeds I got from Hardings and found that. Just a few of them actually had tails.

Below is the pic.

Not sure why some of them would have been that far along with sprouting while others have done nothing yet.

Must have been some kind of kink in the stratification process that messed things up.

Larry told me he had them burried in a stratification bag in a sand pile.

I remember planting them within just 2-3 days of recieving them and I kept them stored in the fridge until I had them all planted. I use the lettuce crisper drawer space to store the seeds until I get them all planted.

Obviously something went wrong that has made the large majority of them want to wait another year.

TNhunter

TNhunter

It would be hard to know exactly what caused the stratification problem. But if you cannot see the embryo, then they were not fully stratified.

You mentioned that you found the seeds down in the soil 1/2-3/4\" deep. Hopefully with that depth they will make it through next spring without drying out.

I was just out checking under the mulch in some of my beds. And in the two year old beds, I found quite a few seedlings emerging. Just goes to show that not all the seeds emerge the first spring. I had 82% germination rate on those beds last year. So with the new seedlings, that will boost up the total germination rate. I think all my beds have some roots that are a year behind the rest in the same bed. Because they emerged a year later.

Atleast most of your seeds have emerged. Thats far better than my first year of growing. But it was all my own fault!

classicfur

TNhunter,
It sounds like we are having some of the same problems. I dug up 18 seeds at placed them in little
Tomatoe slip packs. I'm gonna watch them through May but if nothing happens ill put em in the fridge for a couple months and bring em back out in late August maybe. If nothing still happens then ill replant my site and swear off that seed source for life.

Hillhopper