TOPIC: This years seed arriving; let's see some samples!

Hey Guys,

Here is a pic that Guy posted last year of seeds split showing proper embryo development.

Classidfur - your seeds look good to me. NICE that you got all of those extra seeds. Glad to see your seed supplier appreciating you as a customer like that.

EDinOhio - not so sure about yours. Some look good but some seem to have very small embryo and some look a lot like the seed that I had bad luck with last year (mostly just clear white inside).

Good luck to you all this year !

PS - that pic that Guy provided below is just a very good and clear pic of what the embryo should look like if properly stratified so wanted to show it again.

TNhunter

TNhunter wrote:

EDinOhio - not so sure about yours. Some look good but some seem to have very small embryo and some look a lot like the seed that I had bad luck with last year (mostly just clear white inside).

Yeh, I decided mine are going back.

TNhunter and others

After thinking about what the Ontario Ginseng Growers manual says about the embryo size at end of stratification and just before germination.

From Ontario Ginseng Growers Manual:
\"One way to check whether seeds are developing well is to measure the embryo. Split the seed along the suture line. The embryo is in a sack at the micropyle end of the seed (the pore end). A well-developed embryo at the time of planting should be about 2-3 mm long. The embryo will grow over the winter and will be about 5mm at the time of germination. If the embryo is less than 2mm in length it may not germinate next spring but the spring after, if diseases have not broken it down by then.\"


In Guys photo of the embryos, they are probably atleast 5mm long. I know from checking some of my seeds in the spring, just before they germinate, they are filled out(about 5mm long) in the seed like Guys pic shows.

If its true, like the manual mentions and the embryo continues to grow from 2-3mm until spring when it's 5mm long, then Guys seeds have already reached that size right out of the stratification and if its true that the embryo continues to grow through the winter, then a embryo that is 5mm after stratificatin would grow and cause the seed to split wide open before spring.

I think that its highly unlikley that anyone will receive seeds that have embryo's that are 5mm long, like in Guy's photo.

But that's just my opinion.

classicfur

Classicfur,

So are you thinking that the photo that Guy provided was of seed that had been in stratification longer ? on into spring ?

And what would you do if your seed arrived and looked like what EDinOhio posted pictures of ?

Most of his seed did have a embryo visable, but most seemed to be small, smaller than the 2-3 mm that was suggested as normal.

Would you keep it and plant it, or send it back ?

Welcome comments from any of you on that question.

Wish Guy was around to comment.

Thanks

TNhunter

Ed you did the right thing, the next supplier will have better seed.

Guy

ED - OH

Green seeds embryo's look like a small round circle of clear liquid with a small yolk in the center, and that sure sounds like what is discribed.


FOR ALL - To take good pictures of seed with a digital 10-14 meg camera, reduce mag to 0 then program MACRO picture mode. Take a few pictures with tons of light,then use your mag increase at full to examin pictures. If it's good with lots of detail then have the camera make a copy at the full mag.

guy

TNhunter

I believe that what the Ontario Ginseng Manual suggests for the embryo size is what we should normaly expect.

After inspecting my seed order last year and this year, the embryos were close to the size range suggested by the manual(2-3.5mm long).
And when I checked my seeds just before they germinated this past spring, they were about 5mm long like the manual suggested. And these seeds had good germination.

I do believe that the embryo could be 5mm long at the time of coming out of stratification. But I don't believe that is normal for embryo to be that large at that stage.

I guess that if I recieved seeds where the majority were under 2mm long I would return them for a refund. I think that if we receive seeds that do not have large embryos(4-5mm) like shown in Guys photo, I do not think that contitutes a valid reason for rejecting the seeds just because the embryos were smaller than 4mm long.

After seeing the size of my seed embryos last year. They were about the same as this year(2-3.5mm long). And having good germination from those seeds with that size of embryo, I believe that what the manual says for an exceptable size(2-3mm) after stratification is a valid and acceptable range.

I believe what the acceptable embryo size should be when you receive your seeds, is the size that allows good germination in the spring. For me it appears that an embryo that is 2-3.5mm long at planting time(which falls into the range of what the manual suggests) has done well for me.

Here's a question for Guy:

If I ordered seeds from you and the embryos were not 4-5mm, but were like 2-3.5mm long, could I return them for a refund. Or do you think that 2-3.5mm long embryo is o.k.

Interesting posts everyone!

Thanks,

classicfur

Guy,

If you do re-visit this thread - I expect you have pulled some seed up from stratification at this point.

Could you post a pic or two showing what your seed embryo looks like now ?

I think I would be happy with seed looking like Classicfur's examples.

Just wondering if yours looks about the same, or if yours may have larger embryo's now.

It would be a big help for us all to have a few pics showing what we should expect our seeds to look like when they arrive in the fall.

Thanks

TNhunter

Well Guys,

I started planting seeds today. We had a steady rain last night, 73 degrees and it was a little humid by Maine standards. The mosquitoes were bad. We had temps in the low to mid 60's and the mosquitoes were gone. But they are back!!!

Hard to imagine that the ground could start freezing in four to six weeks.

I figure the kids and I planted about 1 3/4 lbs of seeds today, the old fashion way. It felt good to get out and build up a sweat doing the thing I love doing every year. Planting Seeds!!! Yah Hoo!

Everything was wet out there after the rain, so we were a little soaked.

Here is a pic that I posted this last spring. It's of a seed that had just pushed out it's root. I did'nt measure the embryo, but I figure it was about 4-5mm long at the time of germination. I colored the embryo with a black marker so you could see the size of it.

Any way, I think that an embryo that is 2-3mm long at time of fall planting will grow over the winter and be large enough to germinate next spring.

Good Luck Planting!

classicfur

Classic - I think this would be on the small side, but if you find seed of that quality works for you at least I'd expect to pay a minimal fee.