TOPIC: Regression of Ginseng Plants

Every year in August I always go out into the woods and top all of my ginseng plants to help prevent poaching, keep in mind that i have done this for at least 9 years now. A few years ago there was some talk floating around the net and with several scientific bodies about deer browsing being detrimetal to the survival of ginseng, i have never put much stock in those conversations because of my own experience with removing the tops of ginseng. I do feel that the whole subject of deer browsing is over-rated on established ginseng plants over 3 to 4 years old, In 2010, the year of the may floods in tennessee it became very dry for the rest of the summer, in 2011 after the early spring rains once again it became very dry, i went to a funeral in June and the dirt from the grave was powder dry all the way to the bottom, that is very dry by tennessee standards, Anywho....while i was topping my ginseng this year it was apparent that almost all of my 4 prongs had regressed to 3 prongs but my seed production was up. I don't know what the catalyst was for this condition, the dry weather patterns or the act of removing the leaves (which would have a similar effect of deer browsing);or maybe both.
Has anyone else experienced this type of regression in their ginseng plants? Keep in mind this is wild-simulated ginseng with nothing added. nope not me nothing....nada....zilch..

K_duce
I have seen 4 prongs regress back to 3 pongs in the wild but not in my wild simulated patches. Reason being is I do not have any wild simulated patches mature enough to produce a 4 prong yet. I feel it is all weather related as you have mentioned for a 4 prong to regress back to a 3 prong. Furthermore I find the neck and the \"Bud Scar\"s or \"Curls\" on the neck of the ginseng plant to be very interesting. Just like the rings on a tree when cut down the neck of the ginseng plant can tell quite a story.

I call the previous years growth bud and stem a \"bud scar\". The \"bud Scar\" or curls of the ginseng plant as you all know is the way to count the age of the ginseng plant and we all know that. However, you can tell the growing conditions of one year verses another by examining the \"Bud Scar\" or \"Curls\". Take a 30 year old root for example. I have seen average size bud scars on the neck of of that root double in size at any given year. This means it was an exceptional year weather wise or the canopy opened up due to logging or a large tree fell therefore allowing more light in and the plant really took off.

If the \"Bud Scar\" continues to be larger every year following the dramatic jump in size then I would conclude the canopy had opened up thus allowing more light in. If the \"Bud Scar\" had a dramatic jump in size or even a decrease in size from the average size on the neck and then resumed back to the average size, I would conclude it was either exceptional weather if larger. Or if the \"Bud Scar\" size was smaller than average it was a poor weather year.

I transplanted a 15 year old plant that had Bud Scars with on average a bit smaller than a pencil eraser in diameter. After 8 year the bud scars doubled in size all of a sudden and continued to grow that way for the remaining 7 years.

I know many will not believe this but it will make for good opinions either agreeing or disagreeing. Some experts claim that ginseng roots stop growing in size at some point. Some say that after a certain age the ginseng root stops growing and the only new growth is that of the neck as each year it gets longer. I believe I was told this happens after about 30 years. This may be true or it may not. Kind of hard to prove either way unless the root is pulled out and weighed each year and then replanted.

What an amazing little plant for sure.
Latt

I've seen regression like this before also. Most often, I see it when I transplant roots into a seed producing bed. If you cut open the bud in the fall of the year, and examine it closely, you will see there is a miniture ginseng top in there...complete with flower buds. So, this tends to suggest that the plant makes a prediction about the conditions it will encounter the next year based on information it gathers from this year. I've transplanted large four prongs only to have them come up as four prongs, and then small threes the next. This being the year it adjusts to its new growing conditions.

What I find really interesting Latt, is that as long as we have been dealing with ginseng in this country (early 1700s) we are still learning so much about it compared to what we knew just 10 or 15 years ago.

Kduce,

Sounds like you are specifically worried that topping your plants in August may be causing them to regress.

I don't doubt at all that topping a plant could make it regress, for example if you shorten the growing season too much (for example topping in May or June each year).

I think August is questionable though.

But who knows for sure exactly how long the top is needed for the overall seng plant to make progress growing, getting larger, etc.

I am sure that your seng plants (even if topped in August) have as long, possibly longer growing season than Classicfur & Guy's plants do.

I do remember reading somewhere (not sure if in Scotts book or not) but do remember reading somewhere that a ginseng plant goes thru two growth spurts yearly, one in the spring and another in the fall.

Best I remember they explaned it like this.

In the spring of course there is a growth spurt, then mid summer when berries are setting, that slows down quite a bit (plant puts a lot of energy into producing berries) but then after berries are set, weather permitting (it's not bone dry and 100 degrees like this year) they can go thru another growth spurt late fall.

It's been quite some time since I read that, but that is best I can recall it.

If that is the case then your plants could be missing that late season growth spurt, but not sure if that would make them actually regress in size (top wise).

No doubt that something like a decrease in soil fertility, or other growing conditions, shade, etc, could cause that.

TNhunter

K-duce, I share your sentiments about damage from deer browsing being way overated. I don't pretend to know why they sometimes regress, but I know that they sometimes do even in wild undisturbed areas. I've also seen plants that get topped early, or browsed early come up even larger the next year. You said in your post that you've been topping them in august for nine years. I'm sure that in that time you've seen some 2's progress to 3's and some 3's progress to 4's. If they progress like that while you have been topping them, then I'm sure that's not the culprit.

I do know that tranplanted plants often regress like BCastle described in his post. If the soil and conditions are only marginal at the new site they may never return to the vibrant state in which you may have found them. The way I read your post though these were grown from seed?

I've not been growing ginseng very long (at least not by the conventional definition), but have made a lot of observations from wild stands of seng especially in the last 5 years. I have observed this one plant that sits kinda out in the open all by its lonesome get browsed by something for the past 3 years (always by late June or Early July). The first two years it was a 3prong and this past spring was a 4prong plant. It has gotten larger in size each year as well. This plant is in an area that I keep very close tabs on and visit frequently. I've also seen small patches of ginseng get browsed early to mid summer and come back the next spring and the spring after as if nothing had ever happened. This is why I said that I believe that the actual damage done by deer is over-exagerated. If a deer browses a plant in the first couple years of it life that my be a different story, but I just find it hard to believe that they hurt them much after that. And I guess this would translate to - I don't think topping the plants early is going to hurt them much either. I do want to add the following disclaimer though; I do think it very probable that by topping the plants early that the root yield will probably be smaller as additional (root) growth late in the season will not take place. These are just my thoughts on the subject.

This sort of regression happens to our plants.Some years a noticable amount of our older plants don't even sprout, I paniced the first few years but after diggin in the area found the roots. The buds were set and ready to go but they didn't.If the roots are damaged by grubs or frost or what ever they may regress.This may happen in the youger plots but is harder to see due to the population.
As for the deer they love first year plants, but even those will come up again the next year.
I have a ground blind by some of our sites and get to see the same ones led by the mother,they call our farm home and bed back in the cedars. I can't say that they cause a problem even when they change their path and go right thru a patch. The stuff is pretty resiliant.
Back to your question, cutting them back could cause some regression maybe, I know some plants absorb the chemicals and sugars in the leaves to help it thru the winter and stopping this every year is some what like girdling a tree?
Thats strange that alot regressed at the same time though.
If we did that up here in August we would loose all the berries, they don't set till the end of the month to the end of september.

guy

Thanks for all of the input everyone, it certainly gives me something to think about waiting for next spring.
As i stated earlier even though my ginseng regressed in plant size the seed production was increased, so maybe this could be the ginsengs self perservation mode kicking in after 2 dry years, it may be trying to create a larger seed bank in the soil and possibly dropped a prong to focus its energy on seed production. I definetly feel that the weather is the most significant contributing factor for this. I do realize that i am probably taking some loss in root weight by topping my ginseng but some loss is ok with me, considering the other option of it getting paoched or having to hide a paocher carcass.

I find the regeneration conversation encouraging here.

I'll have to wait and see what the deer browsing really did to my rootlets this year, given the discussion here. I found several places where the rootlet was actually dug up, w/ deer hoofprints in the fresh earth there. I can't imagine that rootlet will regenerate, however next spring will tell the tale.

The many other plants from rootlets I planted that were browsed... if the deer eat the flower buds when they do that... Hmmm....

Have any of you guys put trail cams up around some of your beds? I was certainly surprized by the amount of deer activity after 3 weeks of a trail cam.

I was worried about the deer, and as previously mentioned, am glad to read the earlier posts from you guys.