TOPIC: Planting Large Amounts of Seed

Classicfur,

I think a 4 wheel drive atv would not actually compact the soil much at all. If anything making a few passes over a planting bed area would probably break up the soil some.

Now if you just went over and over it many times - yes could compact the soil some, but with just a few passes should be minimal compaction - in fact the tread on those 4 wheeler tires would probably just work up the soil some.

Also if you could automate the leaf raking once you got them moved over to the sides of the bed you could use something like this to cultivate the soil lightly.

Just a pass or two with a atv disc harrow would loosen up the soil perhaps 1-2\" deep.

Lots of vids on youtube of atv disc harrow and cultivators.

Guys that are serious about deer hunting use them to make and maintain food plots in remote areas.

You can even get a power hitch for the attachments that will raise and lower them.



Also - let me remind you of how Larry's seng planting plots looked like when he prep'd for planting.



It looks to me like he did that with probably some type of tractor and disk. He just tilled the soil lightly working the leaves into the soil.

Then after planting the seed, he mulched with straw.

I guess you could just get the atv disk harrow (I have seen them at our local TSC store) and work up some large long beds like that and then rake the leaves from the side areas back on top of the spot you planted.

PS - I agree with you on nothing wrong with doing it the old fashoned way - that is until you start thiking big scale and then that is a rather serious draw back.

TNhunter

TNhunter, I'm with ya on automation. Some potential planting sites of mine could be done that way but a lot are too steep for me to even think about it. The kinda places that if you ever got snake bit, it would be between the eyes. I tried a leaf blower last year which worked great until the leaves were wet or a limb was in the pile. I'm all for seeking out a way to make things more efficient though.

Hillhopper

TNhunter

Remember Harding is growing Woods Cultivated Seng, not wild-simulated.

You suggest:\"Just a pass or two with a atv disc harrow would loosen up the soil perhaps 1-2\" deep'

It sounds like your planning to switch from growing wild-simulated over to Woods Cultivated seng.

The thing about Wild-Simulated compared to Woods Cultivated and Field Cultivated is that 1) Its harder to prepare the beds. 2) Its harder to plant the seeds. And 3) It's harder to harvest the roots.

But I suppose The easy way would be, to plant massive amounts of seeds like harding and end up with Woods Cultivated Roots.

Don't forget, we are trying to grow roots as closest to wild roots as we can. Wild Simulated, not Woods Cultivated.

classicfur

One thing I have considered. Is to pay my four kids that still live at home, to rake leaves. I figure if they did the raking and I did the planting, I could probably get 6-8 lbs of seeds planted in one day.

I know from letting the kids help out in the past, they feel good about knowing that they had apart in the success of the seng garden. So it's now more of a family garden, instead of just a dad garden.
I think planting would go pretty fast with four people raking off and raking back on to the beds.

I had two kids raking last year and I had good germination. They did a great job.

They feel some success in our seng. In fact they are some what excited about seng.

classicfur

Getting the seeds 1/2 inch to 1 inch below the surface has given me better results than just broadcasting and then recovering with leaves. I do not think it will matter if it is done with a rake or something like TN is suggesting. Once the seedling sprouts and hits the hard soil at 1 inch deep it is going to struggle and split off just like we want it to do.

I have found wild roots in rich sandy loamy soil that is very loose to the depth of over 4 inches or more and the root is bulbous or split with small tight wrinkles and looked nothing like a carrot.

So I think the seeds will be OK if planted on a slight surface till no deeper than an inch or so.
Latt

I know for me in my woods, it would be difficult to manuever something like TN suggested. Especially because most of my planting areas have either dead stumps, rocks or a tree right in the middle of the bed thats needed for shade.

But if you guys can make equipt like that work in an efficiant way for you. Go for it!

Also the old rake scatter and rake method has produced 72-85% germination for me. And with all the problems I heard of bad seeds that were planted last year, I would say thats pretty good!

I still think that the recruiting of four hard working kids is still my best bet for planting a larger amount of seeds. Especially since I know that all four do quality work.

But I would love to hear of growers success with automated tools.

Until then I will stick with the old fasion way that I know has great success.

classicfur

Classicfur,

On this part:

\"It sounds like your planning to switch from growing wild-simulated over to Woods Cultivated seng.\"

The answer is no on that.

If you took a disk/harrow type tool and turned the blades to run almost straight (minimal offset) it would basically just scratch the soil surface up good. It would not really cultivate deep at all.

One or two passes and you may have it broke up 1\" deep on average.

Not really all that much difference in what you and your boys are doing with that long handle spiked tool thing that you are using (sorry forgot the name).

Only difference is in 1 hour of work, you get 10x as much done. And --- well --- instead of breaking your back, you are letting a ATV do most of the work.

And with a small disk/harrow type tool behind a 4 wheel drive ATV, you could most certinly work your way around trees, stumps, rocks or other things that might be in the way.

You would need to clear some long strips of hillside of sapling, rocks, logs, etc (up/down the hill would be best depending on how steep it is).

Then with your ATV leaf rake move the leaves out to the sides.

Then with the ATV disk/harrow run over it a time or two, what ever it takes to loosen up the soil 1/2-1' deep.

You could broad cast your gypsum (if necessary), then broad cast your seed, then run the disk harrow over it another time or two to make sure the seed gets good contact with the soil.

Rake your leaves back on, then run back over the bed a few times with the ATV to mash the leaves/soil down on the seed good.

Might just work well.

I do have a 4 wheeler, not sure if I will get to the point of trying something like that this year, but may in the future. Especially when I move to planting the 200 acre tract of land that I own. Got some long, not too steep hillsides out there that have wild seng on them now.

TNhunter

TNhunter

I would agree that there is a way to grow wild simulated with automated equip.

Like I said I would love to hear of growers success with those tools.

Maybe I've been growing seng long enough to not be easily persuaded from the old fashion way util I see growers being successful with the equip like you showed.

I would be interested in seeing it work out for someone.

With my four kids and I working, say six hour a day, we would accomplish 30 hrs of raking and planting in one day. 150 hrs of work accomplished in five days time. I believe that with just less than one week worth of work, we could plant about 25-30 lbs or more of seeds. And my 18 year old boy can do twice the amount of work(twice as fast) that I can.

I'm really looking forward to planting that much seed.

classicfur

I too think that automation will be a good thing however, i am not yet ready to practice a scorched-earth policy like in the photo above, in my opinion that opens a grower up to even more problems with their ginseng, if the only thing in the woods growing is ginseng, guess what all of the insects and animals/critters are going to attempt to eat? (ginseng) I have been tinkering with the automation thoughts for a while, in my situation an atv pulling a implement is just too long and wide for my forest to turn around, kinda puts me between a tree and a gulley so to speak, i think that some adaptations to items like tillers and maybe even push lawnmower decks may provide some automation. I am not saying use a tiller tine in the woods, i have used tillers for making goldenseal patches and every 10 minutes had to stop and spend 15 minutes removing ivy and honeysuckle vine that would constantly tangle around the tines. not real efficient. i think you could make an implement (using a blower)to remove the leaves while providing a method to scratch up the wet and matted leaves at the same time, and then you could have another implement to drop your seed, possibly a modified planter that could be driven by a tiller or self propelled lawn mower. i believe that most of the future automation of wild-simulated ginseng will come from discussions on this board. i use the rake and scatter method and i have tried to make it as easy as possible for me
1. i dont rake my beds 4ft wide, i rake as wide as i feel comfortable raking 2-3 ft 2. i try to rake downhill always it puts you closer to the ground, 3. when i cover i am most always standing in the area that i raked, me steping on the seed is the last of my worries. when i cover im usually walking backwards. So i guess it is \"game on\" to see what we can come up with.

www.ruralking.com/48-atv-kulti-packer.html

you may be able to repack your soil after planting with one of these, you can add cinderblocks or concrete stones for weight.