TOPIC: Easier Way??

Ittiz,

After I open up a hole and drop the seed in... when you remove the blade dirt falls back into the hole and I simply step on it with my size 11 boot heal to compress dirt/leaves on top the seeds as I move to my next planting spot.

Once you get the hang of it you can plant a couple seeds every 10 seconds or so...

Much slower than rake and scatter... but I like it especially for areas where I am just planting here and there (not in big patches).

I found out this summer (rainey summer) that disease will sure wipe out those large rake and scatter patches quick. I expect that all of the raking back of leaves and disturbing the area like that does, stirs up the fungus issues too.

The nice thing about using a planter like this is you don't really disturb the location, not near as much as rake and scatter.

A lot of my rake and scatter plantings got wiped out this summer, but the areas where I planted like this did not. They did well and stayed healthy.

I will be planting much thinner from here on out and disturbing the soil and leaves a lot less too. You have to adapt to what problems your area throws at you.

If I do any more rake and scatter... I will not be doing 4-5 seeds per sq ft as Scott suggest... but more like 1 or at most 2 per sq ft.

TNhunter

Ittiz
I step on them. I plant about three places in front of me and then move a foot forward.

TNhunter,
I planted mine about 1 per sq ft also. I have plenty of space so its not an issue. I planted in a tiny holler on a north facing slope that is loaded with bloodroot,wild ginger, MHF, and rattlesnake fern. Its a little on the steep side and absolutely covered with big chunks of limestone. Rake and scatter was not an option because of the limestone. This method worked well there although 10 years from now digging it will be hell. I probably planted mine around 1 inch deep also and next spring will ultimately tell if it worked.

Whitjr
Have you ever thought that maybe the day would come when you had thin spots in your patches of sang? I hope it never happens to you but I am thinking it a for sure thing for me. Something like this would come in handy for planting a few here and there. I also remember Brad recommending planting the same spot in multiple years so you have a mix of different aged roots to sell. I think thats a good idea also.

TNhunter,
Question? You mentioned that the plants planted deeper with your sharpshooter shovel withstood the drought. Did you notice was germination better/worse same as other methods where seeds were planted shallower?

Redbeard

TN,
I have been following this thread with interest and what you just posted in particular about your losses this year. I hope that I'm not taking this topic too far off course and if it is we can start a new one.
From your first post about losing young plants to the heavy rains that we had this year I have wondered just how bad your losses were??? I also planted my woodlots in several different ways and I mentioned just how when I was making them. I tried rake and scatter, Modified Hankins, which were about 10 inches apart and rows about 12 inches apart. I also used Brad Castle's planter which is similar to the planters that you and Redbeard used. We have discussed in the past about spraying or not spraying to protect from losses. You had stated several times that you intended to never spray. This Summer was one to really put both ways to the test. I sprayed three times starting with a ground spray before the plants came up. This seemed to be very successful because I only saw about 6-8 plants that drooped over. I could not spray my patches in the mountains for obvious reasons and I saw much more damage there. Some patches had as much as 25% loss and some had barely any loss. I know that you will have to wait until next Summer to really tell how bad it was, but I would like to hear more about this as we get into the 2014 season and you have a pretty good idea of what has come back.
This coming year I plan to change to non toxic sprays and try to rule them out completely as time passes and the plants can tolerate disease better. I like plenty of rain and I hope we get the right amount in the years to come.
Hugh

Guys,
Interesting planting tools. I guess there is no really easy way, just some easier than others.
This year I didn't order any seed, I just planted my own seed as I was digging roots and put the red berries back in the ground. This seem to take the work out of it. I'd rake a small trench with my digger and sow 10 or 12 seed and move on.
I'm convinced if you're going to grow ginseng in quantity, rake and scatter, you will have to spray or most will surely die.

rootman

I have used rake and scatter method for the past 5 years in multiple locations throughout West Central, North Central and Eastern Ohio. Some of my more successful spots have at least 5 to 6 (3 to 4 year old) plants growing per sq foot. Nature is continuing to thin them out somewhat tho.

I have had varying degrees of success germination wise tho. But so far no disease issues and I have never sprayed.

When talking to Larry Harding, he confirmed that \"Tip Over\" can be devastating to a new seedling patch. Once the plants get past 2 to 3 years tho they are a lot more likely to survive. So spraying the first 1 to 3 years is probably best.

I have seen \"Tip Over\" in some of the seeds I cultivated in pots once. They were all healthy for a month then one day they all decided to tip over and die. The plant top does not shrivel up but the stem at the base where in meets the dirt just decays and atrophy's cutting off the plant top at the stem and it dies.

I cut and pasted this below pertainig to disease and \"Tip Over\".

\"The major seedling disease of ginseng include \"damping off\" by Pythlum sp., Fusarlum sp., and Phytophthora sp. while \"tip over\" is caused by Rhizactonia sp. In addition other diseases include root rots by Fusarlum spp. Phytophthora cactorum, Sclerotinia panacis, leaf blight caused by Phytophthora cactorum, leaf and stem blight caused by Alternaria panax.\"

After reading this post I consider myself extremely luck to say the least.

Hugh, if I lived closer to where my seng is growing, I do believe I would spray as you do even tho I have not had any problems.

As far as planting 1-seed at a time I think that's awesome. What a great way to get a pound of seed scattered throughout a forest. It will make it harder for insects, animals, disease and poachers to destroy or find your crop. I have to be honest thou. I must be ADHD because I just do not have the patience to plant 6,500 seeds one at a time. I wish I did because I think its a good thing to do. But just cannot bring myself around to doing it.

Good luck fellas,
Latt

Redbeard...

I have planted using several methods and at various planting depths, including my first patch being done by raking the leaves off and digging a trench (averaged 1\" deep)... some a little deeper

I can say that I have not seen much difference in germination rates at all (as long as I had good seed).

Those planted 1/4\" deep germinated just fine, and so did those planted 1\" or more.

I think the ones planted a little deeper will do better that first year if it is a dry year. My first year was like that, and the ones I planted in the trench around 1\" deep, survived thru to August, where the ones I planted using rake and scatter (shallower) they expired in early July that year.

the following spring, they all came back up and looked good. I still had good stands even in the beds where they expired in July the previous year.

No doubt the ideal planting depth will vary by location, and more specifically soil type/texture.

In areas with that nice lose black loam type soil, I am sure that they would do fine if planted up to 2\" deep. But in areas where you have heavy clay you probably need to stick to 1/2\" or so.

Hugh - on the disease issues I had this year. It was not nice. I do not get out and check my patches a lot during the summer. I check my seed producing bed quite often but don't check my wild sim plantings that often.

When I did check mine late this summer, most of them were hit pretty bad. 60-70% expired and what was left was looking sad. That was in my larger rake and scatter beds. I did have a few larger beds on up the hollow where they were still looking good.

Then I have several areas where I basically just went along the hillside planting where I found MHF growing, just spot planting here and there, and those were all looking good. I have a few other areas where I planted larger areas but with the sharp shooter shovel thing... and they were planted much thinner than my rake and scatter sites and they all looked good too.

It is clear to me now that planting them too close together and in large plots is not going to work here on my place. It might for some, but not here.

On the spraying - you are right. I am not going to do that. I just hate the thought of spraying chemicals on ginseng. Before I do that I will just seriously change my planting methods and space them out a lot more.

If a man does not mind the spraying, I would not fault him for going that route - but it is definitely not for me.

Thanks

TNhunter

TN,
Thanks for replying. I'm sorry to hear that you had losses that high. I did not see anything like that in mine, but who knows what next year holds, since I know that the disease is in the patches and that I can't spray the ones in the mountains. Another thing that I noticed was that there was quite a bit of Alternaria blight in the plants in the mountains and none in my patches at the house. It seems that disease just causes spots on the leaves without fatally harming the entire plant. I have complained from the beginning that we do not get as much rain here at the house in the Summer normally, to take ginseng all the way through the season and I have to irrigate each year. I think it might be of some benefit though since I have not had disease problems like I had in the mountains where it is really wet.

I finished planting the last of my seed today and we made 7 rows that were about 20- 40 feet apart around the side of a very steep mountain. On this particular planting I made them wider and with less seed to a spot because of the fear of getting more problems from close spacing where I can't help them. It has been a good late season and I felt sort of like I was still out there hunting and digging right up to the end of the year. I'll probably be dead and gone by the time they mature, but someone will get some benefit from them.

Hugh

As most know here, im usually on my plants before they unfold and stay with it until the first of july. They seem to really harden off at that point. I am blessed that I can drive up to my areas with a 4 wheeler, stretch out a 100ft hose and start spraying. Two to three times a week I am there, inspecting and checking things out.Im there enough that I can actually say that I miss them in the Winter!
I tell ya what this has done...It has slowed my digging down,I don't seem to have the free time I once did. Two different occasions this year it was already dark and I had to use my headlights to see. About ten o'clock I would roll in at the house. I don't mind it though, it's as much therapeutic as it is work, a good wind down at the end of the day. The thing is; until I reach my first harvest it will only become more time consuming and it may not stop then. If it proves to be as financially rewarding as I hope, I'll always plant every seed harvested.
I have put some thought into this before, sell my extra seed or no. I think I had rather continue as a grower and leave the seed business to someone else but we'll see. One has to produce more income than the other and if it's the roots that do it, then it only makes more sense to keep on keepin on. No reason in half-way doing one thing so I can half-way do another. That's kinda been my path travelled thus far, succeed or fail, one is going to happen on a sizable scale.

Hugh,
If you happen to kick the bucket before I... I will honorably accept your patches gps coordinates from your will.

Hillhopper

Hill,
I'll tell you what. If I gave up the location to my patches my wife would probably hurt me bad:ohmy:

I will use the now famous words from a great speech made several years ago.
\"I have a dream.\" I've had that dream for some time and I've been working on realizing it for some years. I would like to last long enough to get several nearby counties and the mountains in them planted back to the point that any one could go to these places and find ginseng growing so thick that it would look like it might have when Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone were living in Tennessee and Kentucky. I realized some time back that I would never see it unless I put it there and that is what I've been doing. I get a little closer each year and maybe before I die these mountains will look somewhat similar to older days. You may be able then to just drive to East Tennessee and pick out a spot and dig to your hearts content. Maybe I can come down your way and admire yours. It's a worthy goal.
Hugh

Absolutely, my friend. Your welcomed to come and see where the last few years of my life has been planted.

I agree with your thoughts, Hugh. I know temptation and greed are powerful things but it's a shame our woodlands have been raped so. On several occasions I've seen birds swooping down and plucking my ripe berries this year. My first thought was \"Hey, stop that!\", then, I figured they couldn't do very much harm picking a few, one at a time. Nature has a plan and Im sure those seed went to good use somewhere. It can only help out elsewhere with the Ginseng population.

Hillhopper