TOPIC: This years plantings report, w/ pic's

kyjabber, you're exactly right and probably to grow a lot of seng it will have to be woodsgrown. On the other hand to have wild simulated a person will have to accept his losses and let nature take its course.
I'm trying to grow woodsgrown and also some wild simulated and maybe have the best of both.

rootman

rootman wrote:

kyjabber, you're exactly right and probably to grow a lot of seng it will have to be woodsgrown. On the other hand to have wild simulated a person will have to accept his losses and let nature take its course.
I'm trying to grow woodsgrown and also some wild simulated and maybe have the best of both.

rootman

And that's only at the initial stages of production, not throughout production cycle?

According to the state of Ohio's definition it is considered wild if the ground is not tilled..... however, dont expect to get top wild prices for roots that grow too quickly. If most of your ginseng roots weigh 3/4 to 1 ounce or heavier at only 6 or 7 years of age then they are growing too fast. You wont see a lot of deep stress rings on them.

I have seen wild plants that grow this quickly, but they are the exceptions not the rule.

I think a wild sim grower needs to be careful about over doing it with soil ammendments. We want healthy plants, but dont want them to have a different appearance than wild plants.

I have to agree with Rootman... Anyone is going to suffer quite a bit of loss over the years without regular sprayings, but we have to remember that the struggle is a large part of what gives wild plants their characteristics...

I have to say that I think that those who are trying to grow ginseng in areas with poor soil conditions are doing the right thing by trying to get all the variables within the acceptable range for ginseng. For what its worth though I would caution any wild sim growers not to use fertilizers, but if you do wait til your plants are 3 or 4 years old and use something with low amounts of nitrogen and dont over do it..

To Fertilize or Not to Fertilize

To Spray Fungicides or Not to Spray Fungicides

To Amend Soil or Not to Amend Soil

Those are great questions.

\"Wild Simulated\" verses \"Woods Grown\" or \"Woods Cultivated\" .

These are two givens in my opinion:
Wild Simulated left to mother nature is going to thin itself out year after year. I expect to get 10% to hopefully up to 20% survival rate at year 10.

Woodgrown or Woods Cultivated is much more time consuming and costly to maintain. However, a well known Ginseng farmer told me once \"Take care of your ginseng and it will take care of you\".

I have only planted Wild Simulated style thus far but Woods Grown or Woods Cultivated is of great interest to me.

I guess we will all find out which one of these below will provide the best return on our investment of money and time.

Wild Simulated = Lower Yields but with Higher Prices per LB
VERSES
Woods Grown = Higher Yields but Lower Prices per LB and higher expenses

Time will tell for us and I am glad we have this forum to bounce ideas off each other as well as our to share our experiences on our efforts.
Latt

I believe in moderately dense plantings, getting these babys off with a jump start for a couple years and then leaving them be, other than fungal control. They have plenty of time to wrinkle up in the last five years if they haven't already. They will wrinkle up with or without fertilisation as long as they aren't in tilled soil. I have some two and three year olds with excellent color and wrinkles, the only thing they are missing is about six or seven more growth notches on their necks.

Here is an example I like to consider... Take the skin on opposite sides of the back of one hand with two fingers of the opposing hand and squeeze together. Do it slowly and then do it fast. Is there a difference in the wrinkling? No. Im of the opinion that the force of growth by the root through the soil constriction is what wrinkles a root, regardless of what time it takes to do it. Therefore i believe in giving these roots what they need to barrel through the hard soil. Does it create a juiced up top that is more prone to fungal attacks? Possibly.. I couldnt recommend someone to take that path without being there to tend it accordingly if this scenario were to happen.

In the end, it's what the man with the money thinks it looks like rather than a written definition on how it should be grown to fit in that class.

Hillhopper

I'm new to this board, so please forgive me if I'm asking something obvious, but does spraying fungicide render a wild simulated planting less commercially valuable?

I understood the diffrence between wild simulated and woods grown to mean that woods grown was cultivated, or grown in beds that had been tilled....wild simulated was essentially broadcast on the surface and raked in, no ground disturbance was performed. Aside from the organic vs, chemical approach, what difference would spraying fungicide make in a wild simulated planting? the roots are still developing in un-amended soil, ground that has had no fertilizers added, and has not been broken or disturbed.

Perhaps it's my inexperience showing through, but I always considered
a marriage of wild simulated and woods grown to hold the most profit potential. I would like to plant wild simulated in rows, (unbroken ground), for easier surface cultivation and eventual harvest, and would spray if the need should arise.

Should this still be considered wild simulated if it has had a fungicide applied? Would the roots appear different somehow?

Thanks for your patience.....

TonyL,
Your last two sentence in your post above is the million dollar question and is much debated. Just depends on who you ask.
Latt

I have to agree with Hillhopper, and 5 prong in this... especially in the definitions of Woodsgrown and wild sim. As Hillhopper said, Our endeavor is getting the seedlings off to a great start, and then letting nature go with them.

As posted above: \"According to the state of Ohio's definition it is considered wild if the ground is not tilled..... however, dont expect to get top wild prices for roots that grow too quickly.\" this is a great standard, IHMO.

Since ya'll mentioned a specific state's rules (Ohio), I will share what the current definitions are for Kentucky.

www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/246-00/650.PDF

246.650 Definitions for KRS 246.660.
As used in KRS 246.660, unless the context clearly requires otherwise:
(1) \"Harvest\" means to take any part of the ginseng plant while the plant is living; and
(2) \"Ginseng\" means any part of the American ginseng plant known as Panax quinquefolius.

www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/302/045/010.htm

Section 1. Definitions.
(1) \"Artificially Propagated\" means ginseng grown from seeds or rootlets that:
(a)1. Are exempt from the provisions of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) as implemented by 50 C.F.R. Part 23; or
2. Were derived from cultivated parental stock; and
(b) Were woodsgrown or cultivated.

(3) \"Cultivated\" means ginseng grown under artificial shade and in tilled soil.
(8) \"Ginseng\" is defined by KRS 246.650(2).
(10) \"Harvest\" is defined by KRS 246.650(1).
(14) \"Wild\" means:
(a) Ginseng grown with minimal interference by humans, and under natural canopy in forest or woodlands; or
(b) Mature ginseng plants if they are derived from seeds of wild ginseng that were planted as required by Section 4(3) of this administrative regulation.
(15) \"Wild Simulated\" means ginseng grown:
(a) From seed that was not planted as required by Section 4(3) of this administrative regulation;
(b) With minimal interference by humans; and
(c) Under natural canopy.
(16) \"Woodsgrown\" means ginseng which was:
(a) Grown under natural canopy; and
(b) Purposefully managed.

Unfortunately, there is no \"national\" standard for these definitions and is different from state to state, or not defined it at all.

ETA: and here's the link on the great discussion on this subtopic, since I opened the pandora's box by asking what you do consider it based on the original production practices at the top of the thread. www.wildgrown.com/index.php/Ginseng-Foru...Woods-Grown-etc.html

Opened the Pandora's box... chasing our tails 'round and 'round.... both apply to this definition split-hair distinction inbetween wild- sim and woodsgrown.

As always, I appreciate the forum memebers input..... however IMHO, it's a disinction that hope that NC doen't get into too heavily. I like Ohio's def, however not too keen on the the KY def.