TOPIC: Learning from the extreme drought and above average temperatures

In tennessee and alot of other states that have been dealing with record temperatures and extended drought conditions i want to challenge the ginseng growers to examine their crops and try to learn more about \"how these conditions have affected their crops\", I spent a few hours in the woods today from about 4 p.m. until almost dark taking pictures of ginseng and trying to determine why i may have plants that seem to be unaffected by the drought and 12 inches away a plant that is dried-up and yellow, at first it looked so random and then i started seeing a pattern as to what types of plants were were going dormant so early in the year. I know alot of people have posted seeing \"random plants doing badly and others doing fine.
I won't go into detail what i found yet, i think it may be important for some of you other growers to go out into you own patches and find out for yourselves.
here are some things to examine,keep in mind i went out in the late afternoon when the sun was in the westerly portion of the sky.
1.observe the locations of the plants on the hill/terrain
i.e. n/s/e/w n.e/n.w/s.e./s.w.
2.observe the upper canopy of the forest
3.observe the under-story growth.
4.look to the west and observe any sunlight that may be penetrating the tree-line/feild-line if applicable.
5.observe age and type of plants being affected seed bearing or non seed bearing. young or older
6. observe the amount of leaf litter on the ground, this is the easiest, does the ground feel like you are walking on thick deep carpet or does it feel like concrete?
7. observe elevation of plants on the hill/terrain, bottom/middle/top
I think after you look at all of these things most of you will end up being able to better prevent alot of loss due to extreme conditions by proper plant placement. Also i think the information that you find will allow you to better select your growing sites.
It will take me some time to process everything i found today but in the long run i believe it will make me a better grower.

K-duce,
I have been doing some of the things that you have mentioned and I also have the advantage of being able to water my plants. That little advantage has helped some, but it has not entirely eliminated the damage. We have been right on the border line of the maximum temperatures that ginseng will tolerate I think and any extra sunlight getting through has caused plants to just go down in a random fashion. I have some older plants in a spot that does not get any evening sunlight at all and they look great and I have not lost any of them. From what I am seeing and mentally processing I can say that any strong evening sunlight or open spots in the canopy has caused some problems even with watering. Closing up the West side of your plantings as much as possible will help with losses. I've got some other thoughts and I'll mention them later.
Hugh

I have to agree, based on what I have seen in my patch right her close to home (that I can water) that even a slight difference in evening sun exposure can mean early death or survival.

I have a little spot where I transplanted 10 lil 2 prong rootlets in the fall of 2009. 9 of those came up that next spring and they all did nicely that year. They all lasted until fall and did the normal yellowing process late september, early october.

Then last year, we had a similar extreme heat (95+ for weeks) and no rain for weeks... and some of those plants died off early, where others made it a little longer.

I had the bad luck of two trees (just west of that little patch) that died, which is giving them a lot more evening sun than they were getting originally.

From April thru June, as long as we have had cooler temps and rain, they all did really well. But when this bad hot dry spell kicked in, those that were getting just a little more evening sun than the others, they kicked the bucket quick.

In my seed producing bed, just about 30' from that location, the light conditions are about right. But the plants up at the top of the bed do get a little more evening sun than the ones down the hill on the lower end of the bed. The plants up at the top are much more stressed looking now than the ones at the bottom.

When it comes to sunlight and seng - one thing I am sure of is if your patch is going to get a lot of sunlight for part of the day, it needs to be early morning sun, not late evening sun.

Of course that may vary by location some, for example that is absolutly true down in the southern states, but may not be so up in Main.

Of my 9 little transplant roots, 2 of them are planted at the base of a rise, and that rise has a log/stump on top of it and it completely blocks the evening sun from those 3 little 3 prongs, and they are doing nicely. Where others just 4-5' away are dead/brown.

The difference there is simply evening sun.

One thing I have noticed, is that even though those plants come up in April, and may expire by July, they are still getting a bit larger each year.

So they are making some progress. The real bummer is if they expire in July, no berries.

So I am fixing to move them on down the hillside a bit, and plant them at the base of a rise where they will be protected well from the old evening sun.

Good Luck to you guys !

TNhunter

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more interest in this thread. I often get out in the summer to check on some wild patches. I think that a lot of the things that I've noticed will help me out a great deal as a grower.

I think that site selection may be the absolute most important thing when it come to growing sang. I also think that this is something that a lot of folks try to get around.

I know that some of you old sang hunters know that some of you're old honey holes are located in deep hollers that stay noticeably cooler than the high temps in the area. I've never actually monitered ground temp where sang is growing, but I can garuntee that it is cooler than the average ground temp this time of year.

I think K-duce has listed a lot of important things. You guys have already covered the evening sun pretty good. One thing I'd like to mention though is that if you are in the woods and it feels like you are walking on carpet you better move the leaves away and make sure you aren't on a big mole/vole run. You sure don't want to plant in an area like that.

I don't want to get too far away from the subject at hand , but after the storm that we had yesterday some things became pretty noticeable. Here's one. The dry weather had pretty much done in some of the companion plants in my woodlots and the May Apple was one of them and it occupied a pretty good space in both woodlots. This plant is a big one and the rain was so hard yesterday that it just melted these plants into the ground.
As I have mentioned before, I planted 3 different ways to give each one a decent try so as to find which one gave the best results. The plants are as big as they are going to get this year and with the May Apple and a few more just disintergrating,it was obvious that the Modified Hankins method gave the best planting results, by far. Others have had good results with the \"rake and scatter method\" and it may work well for them.
The results are pretty good and it takes some of the work out of the planting chore. This would not be the method of choice if you were going to make a high density bed. I hope that others have been taking notes on their planting techniques and I'd like to see what worked well for you.
Hugh

I really feel for you guys in these drought areas, we went through this some years ago, and the lakes never did come back completely. Not fun when you love the plants and trees and see them stressed.

One item I have noticed in dry areas is on a long slope in areas that are dry there are always some spots that stay greener, due to the moisture that naturally works its way, almost like a spring. Ginseng likes a little dampness, not soaking. These are the spots to plant seeds.

I really feel for you guys in these drought areas, we went through this some years ago, and the lakes never did come back completely. Not fun when you love the plants and trees and see them stressed.

One item I have noticed in dry areas is on a long slope in areas that are dry there are always some spots that stay greener, due to the moisture that naturally works its way, almost like a spring. Ginseng likes a little dampness, not soaking. These are the spots to plant seeds.

Sorry, double post, dumb computer.

One lesson I'm learning is that mid-summer is the perfect time of year to scout for new growing sites. In the past I've looked in the spring when the companion plants first come up. But in the spring, a lot more sites look attractive than in the summer. Mayapple is a good example. In the spring its in lots of places and I don't think its very valuable as an indicator. But finding it doing well in mid-summer is tougher, and I think a much better indicator of a good planting site. Similarly, counting the number of seedlings that come up the 1st spring after planting is ok, but counting the number of stems that are still growing in the midsummer seems like it would be an even better indicator of future success. Basically the message I'm learning is that lots of places look good in the spring, but only the best look good midway through a hot summer.

vafiddler wrote:

One lesson I'm learning is that mid-summer is the perfect time of year to scout for new growing sites. In the past I've looked in the spring when the companion plants first come up. But in the spring, a lot more sites look attractive than in the summer. Mayapple is a good example. In the spring its in lots of places and I don't think its very valuable as an indicator. But finding it doing well in mid-summer is tougher, and I think a much better indicator of a good planting site. Similarly, counting the number of seedlings that come up the 1st spring after planting is ok, but counting the number of stems that are still growing in the midsummer seems like it would be an even better indicator of future success. Basically the message I'm learning is that lots of places look good in the spring, but only the best look good midway through a hot summer.

I agree with you Fiddler (in a general sort of way). I think you can pick up some things in all the seasons, but mid summer can help you find the spot on the spot. This time of year look for those areas that change from barren ground to lush green. I have found that the area of transition between these 2 types of areas is a great place for ginseng to grow. In the spring time this same area will look much greener. In mid summer this area is still going to hold a lot of greenery, but not nearly as dense as what it is in spring. This is by no means the only criteria for a good growing site, but if you have an otherwise good site this will help find that sweet spot on it. This is based on what I've observed from years of hunting sang. I'm relatively new at growing ginseng from stratified seed, but so far these type of areas seem to be doing the best for me.