TOPIC: Soil Amendment Help ... Please

I think your right, sugar maple was the proffered tree of the north and poplar was the southern tree which had stored calcium in the leaves

Hillhopper

Yep, most of those saplings (the smallest ones) were mostly maple, and I was able to pull the bulk of them by hand. They were almost like a carpet.
The saplings shooting up from runners were mostly birch and beech. ... I raked up the tiny maples, and ran them thru a shredder. They are composting right now.

TNhunter had mentioned epsom salts as a treatment adjunct. Is that to be used alone for calcium (such as instead of gypsum) or used in combination with gypsum?

Hugh and others...

Bone Meal should boost calcium, phosphorous and increase PH.

Of course Lime could be used to boost calcium and rais PH but don't think it would increase Phosphorous.

I actually did not consider Lime - since my soil PH is good (5.4 to 5.7) I don't use Lime and well just sort of tuned that out of my soil ammendment opitons list.

But you are right that lime could be used to raise PH and Calcium.

You may need to boost calcium more than you could with Lime alone (without possibly raising the PH too high).

So you may need to consider a combinatin of Lime and Gypsum to get the calcium up to where you need it.

Then instead of using Bonemeal to get phosphorous boost, use Rock Phosphate instead (with Lime and Gypsum).

If you want to boost the Magnesium, then use Epson Salt.

PS - If you have Scotts Book - best I remember the Guy in one of his stories (that grew seng in Australia) was growing in some extremely poor soil and I remember the he used bonemeal (as well as other stuff) to get the soil to where he could actually grow seng.

But now if Lime + Gypsum + Rock Phosphate (combination) is cheaper than Bonemeal - might be the best way to go cost wise.

I remember reading in Scotts book that Phosphorous levels less than around 10 were somewhat linked to poor survival rates of younger seng plants. Your test was showing 7 on phosphorous so expect you need to do something to boost that.

Good Luck !

TNhunter

TN, Brad, and everyone else who shared in this post. Thanks for your input and trying to help me understand a little about these elements that are new to me in growing.

I'm getting pretty close to having both of the wooded lots at my house planted with seeds and rootlets. I have my rootbed finished and I watered it good again this afternoon. It's still dry here. I also have 5 new places seeded on public and private land and I hope to get about 20 before winter. I'm going to try to get pictures of the lots at the house and show how I did several different methods of planting. I started with the \"Hankins method\", then the \"rake and scatter\". I did a little with a Mattock and just swung it into the ground and slightly raised back and dropped the seed. The last will be with the seeder from Brad. This will be about 5-6 pounds for this season. Almost all of the plantings have had Bonemeal, Gypsum, and sometimes lime added. We'll see how things go this coming year.

Hugh

BFB=

the soil samples are -in my humble opinion- essential to the process. Here in NC we state residents are able to submit samples for free to the state lab. It's a nice asset. How else ya gonna know if what you're doin' is effective?

The calcium leaching could very well be from the understory you've cleared. However, you can't be sure about what it was like before the saplings started growing. Can you find someone who might remember what your area was like 50 years ago?

IN my case, I was cleat that rhododendron did \"something\" to the soil that inhibited growth of other plants. The soil tests showed low calcium, lower pH's and otherwise pretty fair values.

\"Course Rhodo is a woody, aggressively growing plant, that almost takes over an area like a vine, only woodier. It's difficult to remove, and took me about 35 hours to clear 3/4 of an acre on a 25 degree sloped area. This factor that is in play here is the crowding out that Rhodo does. It's thick in there. Using a limbing chainsaw it still took me about 6 cuts each for the tall understory.

My partner has been on this land since he was a boy, He remembers that he used to play out there in lots of ferns and other small low-growing plants. He remembers this area fondly, and there was no rhodo at that time. He's now almost 60... and the rhodo has taken over much of the area. Well, except where I put a hurt on it.

The overstory is ideal for our project. Lots of maples, oaks, a few gum, and occasional scattered hemlocks.

There are areas of Maidenhair fern spread thru out this 7 acres. My buddy remembers lots of this from his youth. the soil there looks a bit different, however tests similarily as to pH - on the low end around 4.2. Leaving calcium as the major distinction; it's several hundred points higher where the MHF is.

I think I've gone on and one here, however wanted to give you a good picture as to the Q you raised about Calcium

Wow, thanks guys!

TN,

Much appreciated on your soil amendment suggestions, and I can see that I need to get into Scott's book a lot more. Previously, I had passed over the Australian fella's section, but I'll read that, and continue to pore over Scott's writings. Its a heck'uva good book!

Hugh,

I like what you're doing there with the different methods. That should yield some very helpful information. In my nearby woodlot, It will be mostly Hankins method, with a couple of small plots raked and scattered. In a couple of more remote areas, where I believe the soil to be better, (because of existing 'sang or companions) I plan on planting 'wild simulated'.

Whitjr,

Yes, I found out my property's history from some of the locals when I bought that place. (in '81). It was an old schoolhouse property, and other than a little 'select cutting' back then, it is pretty much untouched. I have just a few really nice old sugar maples there, and a good many 40+ year old trees, and some smaller beech and birch. ... I think the low Ph comes from the inherent high iron content of the soil/rock. Overall, it is hard to find favorable soil in the entire general area. I finally found a couple of good spots, where I had trespass rights, to plant some 'wild simulated'. They were down low on a different primary watershed.

In your spot, (maybe other than the hemlock) your overstory sounds good, and from the description of your understory, you must be in a mountainous area. As I have learned, the MHfern is a plus. I found out this Summer that the ferns I have are the Hay Scented ferns. (not good) From what I found out, the HSferns are fond of high acid soils such as mine, and they also put out some sort of (chemical?) that is not conducive to other plant growth. I took them out with a weed eater, but the roots are still there. So, I'm gonna just keep mowing them down year after year until the roots give it up. My plots won't be where those ferns were.

All,

I didn't include the tiny maple saplings that I hand pulled in the count of the 2' plus saplings that I dug out. Those maple saplings were maybe 500 or so.

Ok Guys, I'm gonna try to insert a pic.

This is a lower quadrant of the woodlot that I cleared this Summer. The large tree on the right border, and the two large trees at the top left center, are sugar maples. I took this pic today.

BFB,
Thanks for posting the pictures of your woodlot. There are some similarities between yours and mine. I believe yours is a little more open than mine. The majority of tress in my largest woodlot are maples, poplars, hickories and oaks. I left a lot of the understory that I had cut down in long strips or rows to seperate the plantings.I will eventually use them to get between the rows of ginseng plants as they mature. The soil in these sections is prmarily a limstone based soil and it really grows peach trees in the cleared lots that adjoin them, like I have never seen before. I have taken some pictures with my smaller Pentax camera, but I would like to get a better shot with the Nikon or even better with the Camcorder, especially when I start to place the last rootlets in the remaining ground. I also would like to video the seed planter that I just bought from Brad Castle. It hasn't arrived yet and it may be a few days. I have enjoyed the videos that TN HUNTER and BILLY have provided so much. They have really shown first hand visual information to growers that are just getting into this business. They make it even more addictive. Thanks for letting me share in your thread.
Hugh

Hugh,

In all honesty, this woodlot turned out to be even more open than even I expected.
I wish I had a before pic, but being eager, I just tore right into it. The understory removal did a lot, but the removal of many many lower branches on those smaller trees really opened 'er up. ... I watched the shading (throughout the day) all Summer long and shook a lot of limbs before removing them so as to not loose shading, but the canopy is good and full; such that I was good to go with lower side limb removal. ... Aesthetically its nice, and will ventilate well, but drat the soil ... LOL.

Yessir Brad, I like the idea of the camcorder, and I couldn't agree more on TN's and Billy's videos. I think I have watched them all at least twice on youtube.

I don't know enough to say for sure, but I am inclined to think that the limestone base you have will work out well.

No thanks needed for sharing the thread; I appreciate that you did.

Bill

Bill and others,
I got the camcorder out today and I tried to do a short video of two of my wooded lots. The first one is almost finished and the second one is about halfway done. You can look at the similarities between the two lots and yours. When I first viewed the video it looked awful compared to what it looks like when I run it on my computer. I hope it's better after attaching it to Wildgrown. It's done with a new HD Sony Camcorder and sometimes Youtube has poor quality after editing. Both lots have some ginseng growing in them that are 3 years old. I also had some bad luck with seed as many others on here have had. I am redoing both of them . Most of the planting was done by the Hankins method or rake and scatter. When I do the next video I will show the planting of rootlets and the new seeder that Brad Castle sells.I also have plans for some caging for my rootbed to keep deer, squirrels, and other varmits out so I can get some seed. I got some seed off of my 3 year plants this late summer and that will give me a source from the mountains of Tennessee and later from Kentucky and sources beyond.

smokymountainflyguide.com/reports28.htm

Hugh