TOPIC: Slowin Down

Vermont,
I would not be opposed to having to get a certificate or license to hunt in Ohio. That would be a great way to get hunters to come in and have the opportunity to possibly review good stewardship practices. That beats the idea of not being allowed to hunt ginseng at all.
Education is something everyone can use and I know it won't work for everyone but I think it would work for the majority and will help keep the Wild Ginseng species going for hundreds of years to come.
There are more White Tail deer now than there was when the pilgrims came over. I know much of this is due to the over abundance of food for them with acres and acres of corn planted. However much of this is the result of good stat programs and good stewardship practices and knowledge. I think we could end up with more ginseng in 30 years than we have now if good stewardship practices are observed by the majority by replanting the seeds and making sure we watch out for the little 1 and 2 year old plants when we dig.
Thanks,
Latt

Vermont wrote:

Latt, I feel the same concern about the future of hunting wild ginseng. This morning I visited with the Vermont state plant pathologist to get my seng certified and we did a lot of chatting about the whole industry. In Vermont they are talking about moving the dates ahead (now it's 8/20-10/10 and if they do change it, it would be 9/1-10/20). I personally think that it may be a good idea since the berries are ALL green until 9/1 with minimal red berries at all, and in VT you have to sell the seng during season if it is wet, which gives wet sellers another 10 days to sell. Also, here in VT, we are on the brink of it becoming endangered, we are one step away and it's scary. There are too many people ignorant or selfish enough where they would rather collect out of season before others and end up getting half the money by poaching and not tell the state about it and be able to get the going rate. In VT, your taxes have to be not-delinquant in order to even get a collectors permit, though both collector permits and dealer permits are free to get. I'm sure that holds a lot of people back. My contribution so far has been to get the old-schoolers in my family to get their collectors permit, which was no easy task. Next, I want to find poachers, and explain how easy it is to get everything legal AND make more money, it would help if I offered them a full going rate (cold hard cash under their nose) with the understanding that they have to get their permit because I would be submitting their name to the state reguardless. The state is willing to work with people to help get them on the right track, even if it involves coming forth with a years batch that has been poached, and signing the papers and getting it certified all at once, but without being penalized for the illegal aspect.

I hope they don't move the season back. I find that the youger plants may have some green berries but the more mature plants are red and/or have already dropped.

This area had some very mature, 25-30 year old plants, and they had all dropped already on the 20th. Think it must depend on where you are. We just need to be good stewards and go back another day and dig if they are green. I found some yellow plants by the first of Sept, that would make for an aweful short season.

I know I missed the bus on this one, but here in NC it is 9/1-9-31, and has been for some time. I wish they would actually move it back just so I can start digging earlier every year. Around here in WNC I found very few plants with green berries on the first of September. In fact, many plants had already dropped their pods. Who knows what we'll see next year.

Hunz,
I know this year the berries turned Red very early due to the heat and the drought. I found some yellow plants with no berries the first week of Sept. But then again, in other areas that got a little more rain the ginseng was right on target. I guess it just depends on the area. Some of the berries were ripe on 8/5/10 in my ginseng seed planting bed near my house. That's really early. I wonder how the state determines the best time to harvest ginseng. I am sure each state has a huge data base and a computer that spits out the data taking into consideration when the seeds typically ripen over many years of history. I wonder if this is the information that they use in determining a harvesting season. It has to be based on when the seeds are ripe I would think.
Thanks,
Latt

Hey Latt,

Back in August - just prior to season opening for most of us we were discussing the issue of season opening dates and berry ripening and I looked around online and found a nice and detailed study that was done on the subject.

If you have not seen it - might want to check it out (url below):

www.as.wvu.edu/biology/faculty/JBMPerson...005BerryRipening.pdf

One thing I found interesting is that green berries harvested and planted mid-late August had about the same germination rate as red berries planted in that same time frame.

It was only the green berries harvested/planted in early August that did not fare well.

Our season opens Aug 15 and when I find a nice seng plant that has a mix of red and green berries (and that is fairly common for us between Aug 15 and Sept 1) then I have always planted the green berries right along with the red ones. I always just had a feeling that they might germinate even though still green and per this article that is true.

It is usually about the second week in September here when almost all plants have red berries and that does vary some depending on exactly what location you are hunting.

TNhunter

What you have to look at in that study is this on the red/green berry issue.

They harvested and planted berries on 3 dates.

Aug 1 (all berries were green) got around 4% germination rate
Aug 26 (mix of red and green berries) got 60% germination rate
Sept 22 (all berries were red) got 40% germination rate

Green berries planted later in August actually had higher germination rate than red berries planted Sept 22.

Thought that was interesting.

TNhunter

TNhunter,

Great information! I had always done the same with the few green ones too. Here in Ohio the pods are mixed at times and I had always planted the green with the red as well. An old timer told me to do that.

Another thing some old timers would do is once the root was dug they would stick the plant stalk back into the ground about 4 or 5 inches deep. They told me the moisture would be soaked up by the stalk and the berries would ripen and fall off. I did this a few times and the plant yellows up slowly and the berries do ripen for sure. However, I think it is best to plant the green Berries with the red especially after reading what TN has posted. Problem with sticking the stalk into the ground and leaving it is the seed is going to drop and lay on top the ground then dry out thus no ginseng babies.

I had another old timer that swore it was best to pop the 2 or sometimes 3 seeds out of the red berry pod when planting them in the wild. He said you could get the seed spread out better which kind of makes sense. If you plant a whole berry then the 2 or 3 seeds inside that berry will grow side by side verses if the single seed is planted 6'' or more apart.

On the other hand I always thought to myself that the juice in the berry would keep the seed moist longer and give the seed a better chance of not drying out and dying.
What ever we do I know we all feel the same about \"Getting em planted in the ground\" with whatever way we think works best.
Thanks,
Latt

Ya, I'm leaning toward what you said last Latt. Keep them in the berry so they keep moist. All the seed dealers tell you to plant in moist soil.

Just keep preaching good stewardship!

Below is some more stuff from that article that I wanted to point out...

----

Fruits were planted whole to simulate what harvesters are encouraged to do.

Aug 1 - they collected/planted 25 berries - all green - 4% germination - 1 ginseng plant.
Aug 26 - they collected/planted 18 berries - mix of green and red - 60% germination - 11 ginseng plants.
Sept 22 - they collected/planted 15 berries - all red - 40% germination - 6 ginseng plants.


50% of the seeds from green berries planted near that stage of development (August 26) germinated, while only
4% of seeds from green berries planted in early August germinated.

That data and the statement above is what I find interesting about the green berries.

50% of green berries planted Aug 26 germinated.
40% of red berries planted Sept 22 germinated.

Green berries Aug 26 had a higher success rate than Red berries Sept 22.

Here is another statement from the article:

Study showed that seeds planted 2 cm deep germinated at a rate 8-fold higher than those scattered on the surface

I do not recommend harvesting the root then putting the top back in the ground (say between Aug 15 and Sept 1) if there are green berries left on the berry pod.

The green berries may continue to ripen and then fall off later, but they have a very slim change of making it if they just fall off.

If it is past mid August a green berry planted has a very good chance of making it - if planted.

If you pick green tomatoes and put them in a paper sack, in a dark place, they will ripen, turn red, be ready to eat in time.

I expect a green ginseng berry will do the same, if planted for example under some dirt and leaf mulch, it will continue to ripen even though underground and the fact that they are planted increases the chances of them making it by 8 X compared to them just falling off later.

TNhunter

That is some good info to know. Where did you find this article TNhunter?