TOPIC: stratified ginseng seeds

KYginseng,
Do you know why 50 foot is the distance in the law?

The reason i'm asking is that most of the wild ginseng on my place is growing in less than ideal areas. I'm not digging, just trying to increase its numbers. If I could legally plant a seed for example 500 feet away from its origin I know it would grow better and produce seed faster because a more ideal location could be found at that distance.

Thanks
Redbeard

Redbeard wrote:

KYginseng,
Do you know why 50 foot is the distance in the law?

The reason i'm asking is that most of the wild ginseng on my place is growing in less than ideal areas. I'm not digging, just trying to increase its numbers. If I could legally plant a seed for example 500 feet away from its origin I know it would grow better and produce seed faster because a more ideal location could be found at that distance.

Thanks
Redbeard

Redbeard,

That's a good question and I don't have a good answer. When we updated the KY ginseng laws and regulations in 2011, that alone was a 3-4 year project for me personally; the agency had completed some work prior to my assignment to the task - it was well over a 6 year effort. I say that to show we really tried to cover all the bases, but even with that much time, we didn't and still don't have all the answers. But we gave it our best shot of what constraints we had/have in making policy. We also tried our best to use sound logic.

In this case, it was a \"it ain't broke don't fix it.\" Meaning, it was something that never was brought up as an issue in that long process or even needed to be looked at. We saw the other states' were similar, if not the same, and we kept it.

A long, no answer, I'm afraid.

I think the 50 foot from the mother plant law is intended to prohibit folks from taking wild seed out of the woods and planting it else where in an unproven site or possibly selling the wild seed.

Planting 50 foot from the mother plant would ensure the seed goes into the ground in an area proven to grow seng.

I think it is interesting that it also says you cannot use anything but your finger to plant them. Folks that hunt seng know that the sometimes hard soil in September may need to be broken up with a screw driver or a bigger digging tool to get the seeds planted 1/2 inch or so below the soil.

Hypothetically, lol I may have moved seed 100 to 200 feet away from the mother plant and used my screw driver to plant wild seed in an area that looks good for growing. Not saying I did tho. lol

I would certainly think this would be a difficult law to enforce for the officials that may be in the woods monitoring this practice.

Good diggers make good decisions while in the woods to help propagate new ginseng growth IMHO. I have an area that once had great seng growing on a western slope believe it or not. Now 20 years later that same western slope has experienced a great deal of natural erosion and the surface is down to the clay base. At the top of the slope are some rocky areas that are filled with huge lime stone boulders and a boat load of rich loamy soil in between these huge boulders. There is some nice old seng in there still on the top of the slope. The eroded slope down lower is washed out down to the clay base. However there are some nice 20 + year old seng plants hanging on still. It would be virtually impossible for the seedling to grow there now. Hypothetically, I may have planted those wild seeds from the plants still hanging on a couple hundred feet up the slope on the top where those big boulders are still holding a ton of rich loamy soil. Hypothetically speaking of course. lol

Latt

Latt wrote:

I think the 50 foot from the mother plant law is intended to prohibit folks from taking wild seed out of the woods and planting it else where in an unproven site or possibly selling the wild seed.

Planting 50 foot from the mother plant would ensure the seed goes into the ground in an area proven to grow seng.

yes and yes. Thank you for writing that out. This is, indeed the intent. I'm sorry if I made it sound like it was a pointless part; that wasn't it at all. We said \"what's the intent?\" and \"does it need 'fixin'?\" and we didn't have any reason to make changes. does that make sense?

I think it is interesting that it also says you cannot use anything but your finger to plant them. Folks that hunt seng know that the sometimes hard soil in September may need to be broken up with a screw driver or a bigger digging tool to get the seeds planted 1/2 inch or so below the soil.

I've been told that's due to the fact if folks use more than their finger, they often plant it deeper than it needs to be.

Hypothetically, lol I may have moved seed 100 to 200 feet away from the mother plant and used my screw driver to plant wild seed in an area that looks good for growing. Not saying I did tho. lol

I would certainly think this would be a difficult law to enforce for the officials that may be in the woods monitoring this practice.

Good diggers make good decisions while in the woods to help propagate new ginseng growth IMHO. I have an area that once had great seng growing on a western slope believe it or not. Now 20 years later that same western slope has experienced a great deal of natural erosion and the surface is down to the clay base. At the top of the slope are some rocky areas that are filled with huge lime stone boulders and a boat load of rich loamy soil in between these huge boulders. There is some nice old seng in there still on the top of the slope. The eroded slope down lower is washed out down to the clay base. However there are some nice 20 + year old seng plants hanging on still. It would be virtually impossible for the seedling to grow there now. Hypothetically, I may have planted those wild seeds from the plants still hanging on a couple hundred feet up the slope on the top where those big boulders are still holding a tone of rich loamy soil. Hypothetically speaking of course. lol

Latt

Truth. Unfortunately, you can't legislate for common sense or every little nuance, but our goal, too, with the changes were to communicate the intent and end goal.

Latt wrote:

I think the 50 foot from the mother plant law is intended to prohibit folks from taking wild seed out of the woods and planting it else where in an unproven site or possibly selling the wild seed.

Planting 50 foot from the mother plant would ensure the seed goes into the ground in an area proven to grow seng.

I think it is interesting that it also says you cannot use anything but your finger to plant them. Folks that hunt seng know that the sometimes hard soil in September may need to be broken up with a screw driver or a bigger digging tool to get the seeds planted 1/2 inch or so below the soil.

Hypothetically, lol I may have moved seed 100 to 200 feet away from the mother plant and used my screw driver to plant wild seed in an area that looks good for growing. Not saying I did tho. lol

I would certainly think this would be a difficult law to enforce for the officials that may be in the woods monitoring this practice.

Good diggers make good decisions while in the woods to help propagate new ginseng growth IMHO. I have an area that once had great seng growing on a western slope believe it or not. Now 20 years later that same western slope has experienced a great deal of natural erosion and the surface is down to the clay base. At the top of the slope are some rocky areas that are filled with huge lime stone boulders and a boat load of rich loamy soil in between these huge boulders. There is some nice old seng in there still on the top of the slope. The eroded slope down lower is washed out down to the clay base. However there are some nice 20 + year old seng plants hanging on still. It would be virtually impossible for the seedling to grow there now. Hypothetically, I may have planted those wild seeds from the plants still hanging on a couple hundred feet up the slope on the top where those big boulders are still holding a ton of rich loamy soil. Hypothetically speaking of course. lol

Latt

Latt... In respect to your statement that I highlighted in Bold! I hope they are not stupid enough to try to monitor on Private land. I once knew a Game Warden in West Virginia that had a problem with a certain (hunter) individual and spent a lot of time surveiling him while he was hunting. One day, he (the Game Warden) saw the hunter dragging a deer across an open field. He crossed the fence and field to the hunter and put him under arrest for hunting on private land without permission, even though the hunter proclaimed many times that he had permission and could prove it. Well, the hunter was jailed and taken before the Judge where the hunter was given the chance to prove that he had permission to hunt on the land, which he did and the Judge dropped the charges. However, the resulting Law Suit the hunter filed against the Game Warden and the West Virginia DNR, resulted in a fairly large settlement for the hunter and the Game Warden being fired.


Frank

Frank, that isn't a private property issue. Instead, it is a law enforcement procedures issue. Clearly the warden did not have the reasonable justification to develop probable cause which would have warranted the arrest. If he had PC, the issue that he went onto private land would have been mostly irrelevant in this part of the country. Certainly this state (Ohio) but I can't speak for the other states. I do know some states forbid entry by LE even in the performance of their duties without benefit of a warrant.

BCastle wrote:

Frank, that isn't a private property issue. Instead, it is a law enforcement procedures issue. Clearly the warden did not have the reasonable justification to develop probable cause which would have warranted the arrest. If he had PC, the issue that he went onto private land would have been mostly irrelevant in this part of the country. Certainly this state (Ohio) but I can't speak for the other states. I do know some states forbid entry by LE even in the performance of their duties without benefit of a warrant.

Brad, The Game Warden had no probable cause other than his overzealous bias against the hunter, nor a Warrant nor the permission to effect an arrest on the private property from the land owner. I believe in Tennessee and in West Virginia, a Game Warden must have either a Warrant or permission from the land owner to make an arrest on private land. I think that they can enter private property if they have probable cause of a crime but I don't believe seeing a hunter dragging a deer across a field during a legal Deer hunting season qualifies!


Frank

Exactly my point...this was a law enforcement proceedure issue (no PC) so anything other is secondary I think as you described this issue.

Frank, where did you go?
Latt