TOPIC: what to do with 5 yr old plants

Some of the discussion on Latt's post about writing contracts got me thinking. In his contract he had a provision requiring advance notice if the landowner intended to sell the property, harvest timber, or otherwise get out of the deal. Say you've got 2 or 3 acres planted that are 5 or so years old, and the landowner wants to timber the land. What are your best options for salvaging your investment. Are dried 5 yr old roots sellable at a decent fraction of the wild price? Is it feasible to dig and transplant them? Is there a reasonable market for selling 5 year old live roots to transplant like there is for 3 yr olds? Growing on others land still seems to offer a lot of advantages, but it sure would be nice if there was a reasonable back up plan. Any ideas?

vafiddler

That's a huge question you have.

I don't believe that 5 yr old dried roots will bring you a very good price.

The biggest problem you will have is harvesting or digging 2-3 acres of roots for dry and sell or transplant.

I have about 50,000 plants that are spread out in the woods. All combined, I would say that they cover about 1.5 acres of land. 95% is planted on my land. It would take me months to harvest all my roots at one time.

In Scott Persons Ginseng Growing book,he has a table on pg 86 for Wild Simulated Genseng that lists costs, labor and profit for planting 12.5 lbs of seed on 1/2 acre of land. He states that it would take 350 hrs to harvest about 80 lbs of roots from that 1/2 acre of land. So if you had, say 2 acres planted with about 50 lbs of seed, it would take about 1400 hrs of labor to get all those roots dug up. So if one person worked 40 hrs a week, it would take about 36 weeks or 1 year to dig all those roots. Unless you have alot of helpers to do the job, you would be in big trouble.

Then there is so much more to take into consideration. You put the roots in danger if you dig the roots up when they are not dormant and plan to transplant them or sell them as planting stock. Also whether it is legal to dig cultivated roots at any time of the year in your state. And the list goes on.

The biggest concern is the labor time to get the roots dug on short notice. It's not as easy to dig seng roots out of the woods as it is to dig carrots out of the garden.

I would not want to be in that situation!

classicfur

Latt, what do you intend to do if the landowner gives you notice that he wants out of the deal?

I do not expect that to happen knowing the two guys that own the land where I have planted ginseng. Both would rather give their right arm than sell their property and both are as excited about the process for the next 10 to 15 years as I am.

Both have taken an interest in it and even assisted me in planting too. So choosing the right person to go into business with is the most important part of the deal when leasing land.

However I do realize things can change and in an unexpected situation I would sell my roots as rootlets for transplanting and price them accordingly per their age. I have notice the demand for rootlets are very high just like ginseng seed for planting.

Depending on their age I have seen them go for .30 cents to $7 dollars per root with $2 to $4 dollars being the norm for 3 to 5 year old rootlets for sale for transplanting.

The roots would need to be dug during ginseng season to ensure they have a mature growth bud if they are going to be sold as rootlets for transplanting.

I hope this never happens thou.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks,
Latt

Latt

I just don't know how you could dig 40, 50 thousand or more roots on short notice.

As I mentioned above from Scotts book:

In Scott Persons Ginseng Growing book,he has a table on pg 86 for Wild Simulated Genseng that lists costs, labor and profit for planting 12.5 lbs of seed on 1/2 acre of land. He states that it would take 350 hrs to harvest about 80 lbs of roots from that 1/2 acre of land. So if you had, say 2 acres planted with about 50 lbs of seed, it would take about 1400 hrs of labor to get all those roots dug up. So if one person worked 40 hrs a week, it would take about 36 weeks or 1 year to dig all those roots. Unless you have alot of helpers to do the job, you would be in big trouble.

If you had to dig up a large qty of roots(say 50,000 or more), and only dug them during the seng season, it may take one person a year or two or more to get them all dug. Unless you had alot of people helping. Considering that it would take about 350 hrs to dig roots that came from 12.5 lbs of seeds. For a smaller amount, a couple of people may be able to get them dug in a short amount of time.

I think there is a point at which you have planted more than what could possibly be dug in one season.

Perhaps that's the risk that some may have to take if they cannot plant it all on their own land.

classicfur

This is a good example of how wild-simulated growers don't fit the \"regulatory mold\" established for wild ginseng. As a grower with a large quantity of roots in the ground, that either are ready to be dug for market, or need to be dug for transplant, you would need to start digging as soon as the plants emerged in the spring. Which of course would technically be \"breaking the law\" by harvesting out of season. Even if you didn't have a huge amount of roots to harvest, as a grower in my area, the best time to dig your crop is early in the growing season because 50% of the plants are browsed off by deer by mid June. Again, growers are placed in a situation where they forced to circumvent the laws to get their crop to market. Is it fair to put growers in this situation? Do we tell farmers when they can harvest their Tomatoes? I know for a fact that one grower in our area was harvesting his roots to get a head start on the labor, and someone called the wildlife officer on him for harvesting out of season. For harvesting 'sang he planted on his own land.

These are classic examples of why we need to develop some kind of certification system for wild-simulated ginseng growers. Currently only West Virginia has a program set up for wild-simulated growers, which the ginseng growers association there helped develop. I have heard that Pennsylvania is also close to getting something set up. Another benefit of having certification in place is that it will protect market access for growers if there is a ban on the harvest and sale of wild 'sang. If the USFWS determines that the trade in wild ginseng is detrimental to the survival of the species, a determination they make every 3 years based on harvest data, population monitoring, etc., then the only ginseng on the market, legally, would be cultivated roots, and roots certified as wild-simulated. If a ban was to happen right now, all that wild-simulated root that we have been growing would be illegal to harvest because it is regulated as \"wild.\"

The USFWS has suggested in it's most recent \"Ginseng Findings Report '09-'10\" that states need to develop systems to track wild-simulated roots, specifically naming grower certification programs, as an option. To me that sounds like a good suggestion. Basically, set something up or risk losing it all. I am interested to hear some perspectives on this. What do people think?

Tanner

I would be all in favor for retaining a \"Ginseng Growers Certificate\". However, I would not be in favor of having to have a state Department of Natural Resources employee visit each and every site to verify I am growing Wild Simulated. For this to work, it should be where a ginseng grower fills out a form naming the area he or she is growing \"Wild Simulated\" ginseng.

Lets not make it to complicated either. If they want exact address locations or records of how much is planted and detailed info I am not in favor of that either. Each ginseng grower will have different levels of success depending on many factors. So my 1 acre may only produce 1/10 the amount of ginseng root in 10 years as the next guys 1 acre of \"Wild Simulated\" ginseng. Also I would not want the certificate or permit to be a certification or document for public record. I do not want anyone to know where my ginseng is planted other than the person that placed the Ginseng Growers Certificate\" in a state file.

On the flip side someone might say if you do not identify the exact address of the woods that you have the \"Wild Simulated\" ginseng planted in then you would be getting a certificate or license to take any \"Wild Ginseng\" one would choose dig and to claim as \"Wild Simulated\" ginseng.

I can see the potential problem for stating too much info or not enough info when registering to get a Ginseng Growers Certificate. So I think the Ginseng Grower may have to identify the area they are growing \"Wild Simulated\" ginseng in. However, it could be this simple on the Ginseng Growers form as follows.

I am growing \"Wild Simulated\" Ginseng in the following areas:

1. The woods on the South West corner of Rt-36 and Old Falls Road
2. The woods on the North East corner of Smith and Jones Road.
3. The woods behind my home on 1234 lumber Road all the way back to Oak Rd.
4. and so on and so on etc.

Then the ginseng grower could have a \"Ginseng Growing Certificate\" that would enable them to do what they want to do in those designated areas. If a game warden or State DNR person were to discover activity in these areas by the Ginseng grower there would be a record that it is \"Wild Simulated\".

Further more it would be beneficial to have a Certificate naming the areas as \"Wild Simulated\" ginseng locations in the event that \"Wild Ginseng\" is placed on the endangered species list. Then this certificate would protect all of us and we could still dig and sell our \"Wild Simulated\" ginseng.
Latt

Rural Action Forestry

First off let me say that here in Maine, there is no season for harvesting wild ginseng and it is a protected plant and illegal to harvest. And it is not against the law to dig my Wild Simulated roots in the spring or any month of the year.

Under the authority of my Ginseng Growers License by the state of Maine, I am allowed to harvest my roots any time I want. There is no season. All that is required is to keep records of seeds and roots purchased for planting and a map showing where they are planted. And when I harvest the roots, they need to be weighed and certified by the state of Maine before they are sold. And they do note that they are Wild Simulated Roots.

So if there is a ban on wild Ginseng, my state has record of me being a Ginseng Farmer.

The roots that I grow in maine are not considered wild roots by the state of Maine.

We are probably one of very few states that do not allow wild ginseng to be harvested and yet licenses growers to grow Wild Simulated roots.

classicfur

When I first applied for a Ginseng Growers license, it was required that a person from the state dept visit and look over the site to be grown on to verify that there was not any wild seng growing in the area. There are just a few areas left in the state of Maine that have wild seng growing. Since that first visit, all I do is renew my license each year with a fee of $10.

They require to have on file the address that I'm growing at. And that info is not open to the public.

It's easier for me to prove my roots are not wild since the dept came and verified and documented that my growing sites were clean of all wild roots.

If a state does not require you to be licensed to be a grower. Then I think it makes it more difficult to prove that your roots are not wild, And that you have no documentation by the state to help you defend your case.

I think our best defense is when the state has ON RECORD of your growing ginseng as a farmer.

In any case I think it helps if the state is aware of you growing seng and has the address documented. The more documentation by the state of you being a grower, the better.

classicfur

Rural Action Forestry,

Something needs to be done, thats for sure. I believe a person should be able to harvest their own roots whenever they want, I am planning on it.

Lenno