TOPIC: Harvest Seasons

Very well said Latt.........

I think we are getting off track here.

No one with any common sense wouldn't understand that paving a woodlot which has wild ginseng, and turning it into a parking lot, will put an end to that stand of wild ginseng. Mining, foresting indiscriminately, overharvesting, etc. etc..

I think the issue most folks overlook is the natural life cycle of the ginseng. We all know ginseng comes from seeds and it is the SEED which keeps wild ginseng reproducing. And, as much as the group on this forum has batted around the quality of seed, we should all be keenly aware that if the seed isn't right, it won't work. Therefore, if we harvest a plant early, we reduce or destroy its ability to reproduce by dropping/planting ripe seed. This is the biggest issue I keep hearing from people in the administrative side of things. We have to ensure that wild seed has a chance to mature before the parent plant is harvested to have a good chance of ensuring the future of the species.

Now, if some condition happens (like this goofy spring and drought) and causes seed to ripen early before the start of the season, there is no law I'm aware of that would prohibit you from going into the woods early and planting that seed near the parent plant. Harvesting wild seed is different.

Someone could, I guess, argue that if the season comes in a few weeks or a month after the berries ripen, all those seed will be lost because a digger isn't there to plant them. But, like was said earlier, ginseng has survived without diggers planting their seed from thousands of years.

The difference in ginseng reseeding itself and early harvest allowing ginseng to continue as a species are very different arguments. In the former, ginseng drops it seed a little early and the leaves normally cover the seed. In the later, we have attached a monitary value to those wild plants which cause some people to see only the dollar signs and not look ahead to the future years, much less to the ability of their children or grandchildren to experience digging wild ginseng like we do. The presure put on wild ginseng by early digging not only reduces the populations, but it reduces the ability of the mature plants to reproduce, generally resulting in a decline of the species as a whole.

Now, if some condition happens (like this goofy spring and drought) and causes seed to ripen early before the start of the season, there is no law I'm aware of that would prohibit you from going into the woods early and planting that seed near the parent plant. Harvesting wild seed is different.


Brad,
All of this back and forth has my head spinning and I'm not sure if I have missed something or not, but I thought that a good part of the argument that Kjabber was coming across with, was that ginseng planted as \"Wild Simulated\" was considered by the state to be \"wild\" and could only be treated as wild. That means that no part could be harvested,\"taken from the parent plant\". I understand that to mean that you could not take any ripe seeds from the plant until legal harvest date to plant them. That sounds to me like you are putting a huge burden on the grower.
Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't mean to be confusing...I\"m sorry.

Looking at these laws and the subtile differences in them from state to state is indeed confusing. I'm not an attorney, but i am a cop. As such, I'm fairly used to reading codified ordinances the way they were intended.

Here are the definitions from Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee.

Ohio

As used in sections 1533.86 to 1533.90 of the Revised Code:
(A) ?Ginseng? means the plant Panax quinquefolius L., also known as Panax quinquefolium L., commonly known as American ginseng.
( ?Wild ginseng? means ginseng that grows in an uncultivated state and in its natural habitat whether the plant occurs naturally from that habitat or was introduced or increased in abundance by sowing ginseng seed or transplanting ginseng plants from other areas and performing no other cultivation practices.
(C) ?Cultivated ginseng? means ginseng that grows or has been grown in tilled beds under the shade of artificial structures or natural shade and is cultivated according to standard ginseng horticultural practices.
(D) ?Harvest? means to cut, pick, dig, root up, gather, or otherwise collect ginseng.

Kentucky

As used in KRS 246.660, unless the context clearly requires otherwise:
(1) \"Harvest\" means to take any part of the ginseng plant while the plant is living; and
(2) \"Ginseng\" means any part of the American ginseng plant known as Panax quinquefolius.


Tennessee

Tennessee Annotated Code 70-8-202. Part definitions
As used in this part, unless the context otherwise requires:
(1) ?Cultivated ginseng? means ginseng growing in tilled beds under shade of artificial structures or under natural shade where shrubs or other competing vegetation have been removed and the soil has been prepared to enhance the growth of the ginseng;
(3) ?Ginseng? means the plant panax quinquefolius of the araliaceae family;
(7) ?Wild ginseng? means ginseng occurring in its native woodland habitat, and includes the ginseng that is growing naturally in that habitat or that was introduced or increased in abundance in its natural habitat by sowing ginseng seed or by transplanting ginseng plants from other woodland areas.



Now, it is important to note that the US Fish & Wildlife Service is the originator of most of the rules with which all of the states must adhere if they wish to export ginseng at all. The September 1st opening, the five year old plants, and the wild simulated being classified at this point as wild are all part of their requirements for the approval of a state's program to allow for export from that state under the commerce clause.

Now, that said, as a law enforcment officer myself who has the authority to enforce ginseng laws if the occasion should arrise, I am going to look for the intent of the law rather than the letter of the law per se.

For instance, the purpose of the September 1st opening date is to ensure that most of the berries on the plants are ripe should the plant be legally harvested. The requirement to replant the berries in the area of the harvested plant shows the intent of the law. Some states specify how many feet away you can plant the berries, others do not, but all require them to be planted in the 'area' of the parent plant. This is to ensure the reseeding of the wild ginseng species. Early harvest aborts that process and harms the reproductive capacity of the species.

If the goofy conditions like this year were to cause the berries to ripen early on a wild simulated stand, or a truly wild stand for that matter, and you were to pluck the berries and plant them right there in the area where the parent plant is growing (say 50 feet or so max) you are indeed complying with the intent of the law. With that argument, and no ginseng berries in your pocket if you were to be stopped, I would suggest no court is going to convict you of harvesting ginseng out of season.

My argument is that plucking ripe berries early -which may be a form of 'harvest' according to some of the state's laws, is a non issue as long as you plant those berries right there as the law was created to encourage you to do.


Short answer...I would never write a summons for someone who I caught planting ripe ginseng berries a week or three before season as long as he or she was otherwise complying with the applicable laws.

Brad,
I think that I heard a huge sigh of relief after reading your explanation about the intent of the law. At the same time I also heard a huge rumbling from people all over the ginseng growing country saying to themselves that there is a huge need for growers to sit down with some of the chain of command who make up these rules and work out a little broader set of regulations that have some flexibility that work in favor of the grower. Wild and Wild Simulated is a festering boil that is sure to hurt the Ginseng Industry as it stands right now.
Hugh

Hugh, I agree that some things need to be changed for the growers. If a grower buys seed,plants it and then it is old enough to produce berries then the grower should be able to do whatever he wants with those berries-sell some or plant them in an entirely differnt place. The grower should be able to do whatever is necessary to raise his crop whether it is in season or not. Hopefully most officials would be like bcastle and use common sense, but obviously some are not.

Any one that grows ginseng knows there are times when the regulations intended for wild ginseng is not appropriate for wild sim or woodsgrown.,

Lenno

I agree, the wild sim issue is the other shoe which is yet to drop. I would only caution growers and diggers to be very careful about what they ask for. Often, when you are dealing with laws like this, the best intentions come with negative externalities which we may like even less. The Sept 1 start date is one of those things. The goal was to ensure that most of the berries of the legally harvestable plants would be ripe by the time the season started (this information is contained in the findings from the US Fish & Wildlife Division of Scientific Authority...which become the rules of the Division of Management Authority...which in turn become the laws the states MUST pass in order to gain approval from the F&WS to export ginseng at all). The negative externality was an unforseen and completely unreasonable weather pattern early this year which has some berries ripening a month or more early.

The short side of the argument is that as long as the berries and their seeds have the opportunity to ripen the goal of the law was met. On the other hand, a smaller percentage of those seeds may make it because they will not have the assist of a digger to plant them.

As for the wild sim issue, I think it is going to be regulated at some point unless the wild populations are shown to begin increasing and poaching (any violation of the ginseng laws connected to harvest or sale) becomes scarce. I do not want wild simulated planting regulated. I also can't imagine a fish cop sitting in the weeds by my wild sim patch to see if I am planting ripe berries a week early because that may be a technical violation. I am just afraid if the F&WS do somehow regulate wild sim, it will negatively affect our market and put additional pressure on the truly wild populations.



Let me make something really clear. I am in no way suggesting anyone violate any of their state's laws.

im going to follow the laws, didn't pick any red ripe berries today and didn't plant any red ripe berries today. My ginseng thinks it is September 1 right now. notice the yellowing leaves and red berries. As far as getting caught protecting my investment, I would simply argue that i was growing cultivated woodsgrown ginseng, here is my reciepts for the seeds your honor,,,have a good day.

I've been reading all the posts on what people think about harvest seasons and let me say this.
We didn't have a harvest season 50 years ago because ginseng wasn't as valuable as it is today and that is considering inflation also. People would walk past ginseng like you would goldenseal today and not give it a second thought.
Then all of a sudden there was the recession of the late 70's and I couldn't believe the rise of ginseng prices and how everyone and their brother was digging because of the lay offs from work. It didn't take long to start cleaning the woods out and every year ginseng got harder to find.
The Feds had to do something before it was dug to extinction.

My advice is follow the ginseng laws and just use common sense on your wild sim patches and things will work out just fine and don't make waves.

Latt wrote:

Over-harvesting is not something new. We need regulations and a ginseng season to secure the future of ginseng. Yes some will not pay any attention to the regulations and the season. However, I believe the majority will and that is going to save many seng populations.

Some states adjust the deer hunting season and number of deer to be shot and tagged depending on the season. I don't know if the state has the resources or information to adjust the ginseng season for any given season. It would be nice to allow seng hunters into the woods a couple weeks early when we have a drought coupled with a summer that has so many hot days.

Latt

I think this forum is a great step in education on conservation and to show solidarity in a 0 tolerance attitude towards breaking law. Hunters are learning that the single most step in better hunting is hunter management. The single act on wether to pull the trigger goes a long way to better hunting. The act of digging and keeping that young root and burying the seeds goes a long way toward better and more seng. Education is the key.

That being said no matter what is said there will always be idots out there!