TOPIC: WoodsGrown vs WildSimulated pictures

Hey All,

We've all talked about what woodsgrown roots will look like when they reach maturity as compared to wild simulated roots at about the same age. Yesterday while I was in the woods and Charity was digging some WG rootlets for a customer, I finished my other chores and decided to look around and maybe dig a couple roots if I could still find them at this late date. Find them I did. The 7yr old wild sim patch still had many tops above the ground. Most were starting to dry up as you will see in the pictures below.












Now, after looking over the pictures let me also tell you that in total there is .11 pounds of green ginseng in these four roots together. That's about $20 worth in this current market (right now today) either green or dry. I would argue that while I would dig these roots if I were hunting wild, I think they might stand to mature a little more for best market pricing.

Look over the pictures again...the top three are the same roots, and the bottom two are the same. All large four prong plants from what I can tell. (one had only a stalk, but looked to have had four prongs) All on the same hillside, about 80 yards apart on the same western slope. All from the same seed from the same seed source (the same seed I still plant and sell today).

The top three pictures are of 8 year old woods grown roots. I planted them in tilled beds, sprayed them as needed for the first three or four years. After I dug the beds, I just left the plants I missed to fend for themselves. These are the results.

The last two pictures are roots from my 7 year old wild sim patch. Similar in size, and still nice wild-looking roots.

However, if I had to be honest, I think with these four roots, as a dealer and grower, I prefer the look of the woods grown roots. I think they have better shape and more wild character.


I don't want to start a fight, but we have discussed this previously and had only our personal observations to go by. I hoped this might give us a little better common ground from which to discuss the merits of the two growing methods with the intention that with more of us looking at this issue, we might come to some consensus on at least some aspects of growing these plants.

Please discuss!

Brad, thanks for sharing this. I think all the roots in the pics look good. With a lot of my woods cultivated beds, I am getting a lot of hair roots. Will these hair roots dissapear with age or will they look cultivated? Another thing I noticed with mine they look good green, but dont look nearly as wild when they dry. Any suggestions?

If the roots you have there dry and still look wild then it seems tilling is the way to go because you have more to harvest growing woods cultivated than wild sim.

Lenno, I have a couple ideas.

How are you drying your roots?

When do you harvest them...and how do you handle them after?

Also, do you add any ammendments to the soil before planting or during the plant's growth?

Brad, the roots I am talking about are 5 and 6 years old. Put down gypsum, dug and dried the same as I do with wild roots- laying on a screen in the shade.

Brad;
As I have said in the past it is an issue of integrity. The only problem I see with woods grown and wild simulated is when they are sold as the same thing.

Let me get this straight, the seeds are all from a field grown op. and they are grown beside each other untouched for the last four years at least, shouldn't they really look like each other?

Those roots all look wild to me, good job Brad.

Guy

Brad,
When you started your beds for the Woods Grown what amendments did you apply at the start and what did you add before digging? I take it that the Woods Grown that you are referring to were initally planted for rootlet sales. I like the looks of the Woods Grown and I can see stress rings very clearly.
Also, did you add anything to the Wild Simulated patch? I think that I have seen you say before that you add nothing to those plants.
Hugh

those roots really look good!

Lenno,

I have posted about this before, but I'm seeing a tendency for woodgrown stuff brought in to me to have a scaly rather than ringed texture and tend to be greyish in color. I'm still not sure if this is from the drying process, or if it might be the result of soil amendments.

Most generally, I do not add anything to the soil when I plant. Remember what Dr. Beyfuss told us recently... to the effect that you can use amendments to make a good growing area better, but you can't use them to make a poor area good. Although I've been mum about it until now, the fact is, if I find healthy looking wild plants in the general area I want to plant, I don't even bother with a soil test (I might do one this summer just to see what the makeup is in this particular area). This is one of those areas. I never did a soil test, and only tried gypsum as a test some years back (this year I used gypsum on most of the beds with a few controls to look at the issue again), I don't think there were any amendments added to the beds where these woodsgrown plants were growing. There were absolutely no amendments ever to the wild sim.

One thing I would suggest you try is digging a little later in the year, and conditioning the roots before drying like the commercial growers do. Go ahead and wash them normally (not too clean), and then after they are good and dry on teh surface (maybe a day or so) put them in an open paper bag or cardboard box and put them in the refridgerator. You may not have a fridge this cool, but if you can get them down to about 34 degrees and hold them for two or three weeks before you take them out and dry them, it might help with the final product. Generally they will have a better skin color, and will be more corky.


Guy,

Yes, the seed all came from our mutual friend's commercial operation in Ontario. The woodsgrown was planted with a mechanical seeder in tilled and crowned beds. They were sprayed as needed for the first three or four years. After the bed was dug for my rootlet customers, I left the ones I missed grow. The wild sim was planted down the hill from the location of these particular woodsgrown plants, and the only things I did was pull some sapplings and trim low branches. I planted them with my ECF Seeder.

I understand your perspective. I'm not certain I agree with it from a pragmatic perspective, but respect your opinion never the less. Some of my root goes directly into the traditional Chinese medicine retail market, and they are aware of the nature of the roots I sell..and don't seem to be concerned as long as they are at least ten years old, of large size, and corky. Yes, both sets of roots have been left to their own divices for the past four years or so. This causes me to wonder what the actual litmus test for wild ginseng is really. Is it age? The time the root spends in the ground soaking up good stuff from the earth? Or, is it based on appearance, and taste? Maybe a combination of the two? We have had this discussion before, and I don't really want to stir up uneasyness, but say I died and left this ground to my son, who years from now finds the beds of woodsgrown I planted last year? It will not appear they are growing in beds at all, because after about the second year, the crowns of the beds flatten out and you can't tell they were ever there if there is nothing growing in them. If they look like the woodsgrown roots in the pictures, how will he know that they were planted in tilled beds and sprayed for the first couple years of their life? How would he know they were borne of commercially cultivated and harvested seed?

And...thank you for your kind words!

Hugh,

I think I've already answered your questions. I added nothing ever to the wild sim. I seldom add anything to the woodsgrown and do not add anything after planting. I guess I've thown some gypsum over a couple seedling beds if I had part of a bag left, but as I said earlier, I only tried gypsum once years ago and saw no big difference to justify the extra cost and work.

Whitjr,

Thanks!

Brad,
The meaning of wild: Occurring, growing, or living in a natural state; not domesticated, cultivated, or tamed.

You feel comfortable to sell cultivated root that resembles wild, to a guy that sells it as wild to the medicinal industry. Does he pass this info along or just pocket the difference? LOL
I definetly don't understand your perspective. I think CAGE FOR THE ELEPHANT says it best with their song, Aint know rest for the wicked; money don't grow on trees...
Our family dealings for the past twenty plus years are much different.

Again,the meaning of wild: Occurring, growing, or living in a natural state; not domesticated, cultivated, or tamed.

and for your son how would he know where to look?


Guy

Occurring, growing, or living in a natural state

Well, I think that is the answer to our disagreement. I think if I am not actively spraying these plants and they are living in a natural state, why would they then not be wild?

Again, I understand your perspective and that's ok with me. I guess my thought is that if the plant is living in the woods and has been living naturally for a number of years ....plenty long enough to qualify for certification as organic...then why would it not be living in a natural state at that point?

That was my point...if my son inherits the ground and purly by chance finds the seng years later...how could he know it was stuff Id planted? Lets take that another step...I sell the ground and that guy's son finds the seng years later...how will he know it isn't truly wild?