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TOPIC: On the subject of Green Seeds

On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10143

Hey Guys,

On the subject of green seeds.

I think that since we are growers of seng, and we have more information available to us today through this forum, compared to growers that are just starting out and do not utilize the recources that we have available on this site.

If we are planting green seeds this next season. That is our own fault. There has been plenty of info on this site showing how to check our seeds to find out if the embryo is developed or whether the seeds are green.

The best info on this subject was posted by Guy. It shows what the Embryo should look like when it comes out of the stratification box in Sept. Check it out.

www.wildgrown.com/index.php/Ginseng-Foru...emryo-size.html#9853

We should be the kind of growers that are checking our seeds for this(embryo growth) as soon as we recieve our seeds from the seller. If the embryo in the seeds are not developed we should be on the phone with the seller and requesting a refund or demanding them to ship some that are properly stratified.

I feel that, as growers of seng, we need to be able to identify whether the seeds are Green or stratified. We have the information to be able to properly check for this. And if we don't know how to identify the embryo in different growth stages, then we need to learn how.

Some have checked their seeds and claimed that they cannot see any embryo. All seeds have an Embryo! If you cannot see it with the naked eye, then get a magnifer glasses. I use a 3X head visor magnifier and it works great. The embryo is easy to see with 3x magnification.

With all the info that we as growers have been been blessed to have about embryo growth on this forum. If we plant GREEN seeds this next fall, it is our own fault.

If we recieve Green Seeds, we should be the ones that put these sellers of green seed on the spot.

We need to be the well educated ones in this field of growing seng.

Say No to Green Seeds!

classicfur

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10144

Amen Brother.
Like the old saying goes: \"Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me\". Well I won't let it happen to me twice. I have never received \"Green\" seed before this year. I was float testing and that was about it. I have learned from this years experience that that's not enough. I had figured if they sank and looked white and firm inside they were good seed.

I know I will be cracking some seed this fall and if the seed is not stratified it's going back to the supplier.

You are right on what you say. We as growers can help put a stop to this by taking away an outlet for these seed suppliers to sell their \"Green\" seed.

I hope someone gets to the bottom of what happened this year. With as much potential \"Green\" seed that may have hit the market it has to be from a large seed supplier supplying other seed suppliers.

I do not know this for a fact but I would presume that many seed suppliers run out of seed from their own source then rebuy and sell seed from larger wholesale seed suppliers.
It would have to come from one of these larger wholesale seed suppliers in my opinion to affect so many people.

I would like to think that some of our suppliers that usually sell great seed simply didn't know that they resold \"Green\" seed unknowingly. But you would think they would be knowledgeable enough to know the difference.

Once again I have learned yet another new lesson when it comes to planting ginseng.
Latt

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10145

Classicfur,

I hear you man !

One thing is for sure - I learned that lesson this past year.

All I did when I got my seed in was inspect them visually from the outside, look, smell, etc and float test them.

I did not crack a single seed open to check for embryo development (or disease).

You can bet I will sure be doing that from now on and if I do get sent any more green seed I will sure be taking that issue up with the seller.

I still don't know if the seed I got from Hardings was a mix of stratified and green. Some of it did come up and when I recieved the seed some of it was cracked and some even had tails but still less than 1% sprouted.

I will try to get back down to the hardings seed beds this week and locate a few more seed and inspect them better for embryo development and will report back here.

Latt - I am sure that you are ritht that a lot of seed suppliers simply ran out of their own seed and bought seed from other sources and sold that (late in the year). But now the Hardings seed I bought I talked to Larry myself and he told me he was selling me his own special wild strain seed.

I asked him about his seed source and he said the majority of what he sells is from shade grown cultivated grower seed supply that he is simply reselling - but if a customer ask for it (specifically ask) he will sell his own special wild strain seed. I was dilligent enough to call and ask about the source and request the wild strain seed - but unfortunately still got a bad batch.


TNhunter

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10147

Guys

I see the link to Guy's topic \"Seed quality based on embryo size\" is not coming up.

So you will have to use the search option and enter:

Seed quality based on embryo size.



Latt, TNhunter

I agree that we need to hold these seed suppliers accountable to what they sell. If anything, educate them, that we know what stratified seeds should look like.

I think that reputable seed suppliers should be cracking open a few of the seeds that they are going to ship to us, to verify that they are shipping us Good Stratified Seeds\"

classicfur

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10149

TNhunter
I know I had very little come up from the late march seed I got from Harding. I came into the game way to late and scrambled to get what I could in the ground. I was hoping to plant a lot this fall but am very unsure. I think I will get #8 this fall and hope to get a good germination rate next spring. I am reluctant to plant a lot until I am sure I am planting in the correct areas and using the correct techniques. I certainly will be checking things differently than I did this spring.

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10160

koolrayz,

Sorry to her that someone else got what appears to be green seed from hardings.

I went out to one of my beds planted with the hardings seed and found a couple this evening and brought them back home.

I cut them in half and took a pic.

I messed up one so only showing half of one and then the other one split in half.

This is about as good as I could get it with my camera.

I did look at them under a magnifying glass too and still could not see embryo development like I saw in the pics that classicfur and guy provided.



What do you guys think - Green Seed ?

TNhunter
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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10161

Hey - right after I posted that I remembered that we got our son a microscope for Christmas and I got it and checked and the two lowest powers on it were 4x and 10x.

10x was a bit too much but at 4x I could see that split seed surface extremely clear.

There was no sign of a embryo except in the very corner along one edge and still it was somewhat hard to see and very small. I would say it was less than 1/10 the width of the seed in size.

With the naked eye and even in my up close (blown up) camera shots it is very difficult to see.

Looks to me like I paid nearly 130.00/lb (shipping and all) for mostly green seed that had a bit of stratified seed mixed in to make it look better (remember small % of mine was cracked and a few had tails) but less than 1% of the total sprouted.

That stinks !

Live and learn.

TNhunter

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10162

TNhunter,
My seed that did not come up look the same way, virtually no embryo development at all. I'm hoping maybe we will get a decent germination next year out of these seed. Man that makes me mad. I can't stand a cheat and a crook, who ever started this practice should be grabbed up by the hair of the head and kicked in the ass until his nose bleeds.

Hillhopper

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10163

TNhunter

It's good to see that those seeds still apear to be healthy.

I have read that \"some green seeds will germinate their first spring.\" So I would think that all of those seeds were probably Green and a few just happen to germinate the first spring.

Hopefully those seeds can survive till next spring. I think it's easier for planted seeds to survive Mother Nature for up to eight months versus being in the ground for 12-18 months. I think my biggest fear would be, them drying out.

Perhaps you could water those beds if they start to dry out alot this summer. Or perhaps you could pile a thick layer of leaves(mulch) on top of the beds to help keep the moisture in the soil.

Just a thought.

classicfur

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Re:On the subject of Green Seeds 6 years 2 months ago #10164

Hillhopper,

Greed obviously took over at a few seed suppliers last year.

What really irks me is I talked to Larry myself, and he said he was sending me his special wild strain seed (his own stuff) not the artificial shade grown cultivated seed that he sells to others that don't ask.

If it was his own special seed then with the experience he has one would sure not expect to get green seed.

Sounds like he may have just told me that on the phone but then sent me the shade grown cultivated seed that he bought for resale - and perhaps he did not check it to see if it was green ?

Sounds like a stretch for a well known ginseng producer to do something like that but that sure looks like what may have happened.

Classicfur - I could water those beds but it would be a lot of trouble. I would have to tote 5 gal buckets of water in there and then sprinkle it on with a wattering can.

I doubt I will be doing that. Also Just around the hill a bit I found a couple nice 3 prongs late October 2009 and planted the red berries off of them. This spring it looked like every berry I planted sent up 2 - 3 leafers. There were pairs of 3 leafers all along the shallow trench I planted them in and the were spaced about 1-2 inches apart - obviously came from the same berry.

Since wild planted berries did so well in that location (even though we had some very long dry spells while they were planted) that makes me feel fairly good about the seeds I planed making it.

TNhunter

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