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TOPIC: How do we stop illegal digging out of season?

Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33816

rootman wrote:

No, GMCPaul.


You need to put away that JIM BEAM bottle and really think about the future of ginseng and not what is good for you.

PS in my REALLY younger days it was Makers Mark & Crown Royal for me. I still don't get the put the bottle away comment though as I think I present a rather sound level view on things and not a drunken rambling view that's incoherent and out of context........
Sure did seem to RIAL YOUR FEATHERS THOUGH when I suggested green only sells for buyers also. Why's that did it hit inside your wallet suddenly as your suggestion does to mine??? I could easily get a dealers license in Indiana and would if it went to green only by diggers and buyers to only one with dried. Indiana's only $25.00 for a license and I'm already considering doing it to pull roots from green purchases for replanting.

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33818

rootman wrote:

GMCPaul,

With the amount of seng you steward and harvest, why not get your licence and you could even buy green and dry it.
I have no answer on clear cutting and strip mining which is very sad.

I hadn't gotten a license for ginseng in the past because I couldn't rationalize paying for a license to then try to locate a buyer willing to purchase just 15-20lbs a year from my & my sons harvest yearly. I honestly know most buyers are interested in that small a lot. But in a green only market for diggers I SURE WOULD GET THE LICENSE as $25.00 for a license to increase my take by 25-50% is a NO BRAINER, Boy wouldn't we really see the licensed dealer #'s go up then as every 1 out of 10 diggers or more do the same or form cooperatives where 1 gets licensed and he just basically hold their roots till they are ready to sell it dried into the market.

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33821

Okay, We've pretty well beaten this subject to death.

What is the opinion of growers and diggers on this forum on the green sales only??
PLEASE your opinion?

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33822

People would find ways to dig illegally if we went to a green only market. I am pretty sure the roots could be transplanted and then dug up in September. There would be a lot of new dealers, and some would still buy illegally. I don't think the green market only is the answer.

The last thing we need is more government. More regulations only hurt the honest folks, and the people digging illegally will just ignore the law anyway.

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33823

People would find ways to dig illegally if we went to a green only market. I am pretty sure the roots could be transplanted and then dug up in September. There would be a lot of new dealers, and some would still buy illegally. I don't think the green market only is the answer.

The last thing we need is more government. More regulations only hurt the honest folks, and the people digging illegally will just ignore the law anyway.

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33825

Rootman,
I really don't have an answer to whether we should have a \"Green Market only\".
I do strongly believe that we should have a regulation that you can not go into the woods with any kind of a digging tool unless you have seeds to plant with you. At least for the time being, that would insure that we keep ginseng numbers on a level playing field. If you have to plant seeds every time you dig a root, your at least assured that you are putting back more than you are taking.

Hugh

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33828

Chatty bunch last night weren't ya.

Is anyone even aware that the current administration (at least in Ohio and I suspect other states) has considered banning green sales? I know that the guys who sold green to me this year did better so far with a $200 top green price.

Here is some information from Ohio...


Income 2013
Fines $8,278.00
Certification $16,737.00
Sale $23,551.75
Total $48,566.75




Expenses 2013 2014
Personnel Costs $50,432.81 $147,714.06
Forms/Brochures $1,500.00 $1,500.00
Equipment (scales) $246.00 $246.00
Totals $52,178.81 $149,460.06

--> Edit Note: This is still messed up, but at least the numbers are now in order. the key things to see are that the income last year 2013 was $48,566 as compared to the expenses of $52,178 This year, the expenses are nearly $150,000 as of the middle of October, with nearly a tripling of personnel costs from $50,432 in 2013 to $147,714 at that point this year.

Notice the increase in personnel costs? From what I understand, there are a lot of new ginseng related arrests this year. Most of them oddly enough related to the TV shows we all dislike so much. Seems people who watch the show understand what's going on now and call it in when they see a truck sitting on a back road near the woodlot in early August.

THIS is how to stop illegal digging...catching them in the act. Nothing short of this is going to work folks. I don't want to see green only sales any more than I want to see no green sales. Ginseng dealers are not cops. It is not wise to expect us to police the diggers. Partly because there are dishonest buyers and partly because it is counterproductive for us to do so.

Now, it is not only costly but exceedingly difficult to catch early diggers in the act. The only way to catch them otherwise is to load down everyone with regulations and jamb them up with technical paperwork violations. I'm here to tell you that some fish cops are thinking that's the way to go. Make regulations which require paperwork on EVERYthing and then bust guys for not doing the paperwork correctly. After all, if we can't get them digging early we get them some how right? I don't think that will work either and am completely opposed to jambing anyone up for technicalities. Hell, I don't even stop speeders for less than 15mph over.

I think most early diggers are selling early too. Few of them can handle the concept of delayed gratification. They are selling to someone in August is my bet. I think the answer is to shape digger behavior through regulations on the dealers. If a dealer is afraid to buy early, the early diggers have no where to sell. Right now, if they pull your license, you can still finance ginseng purchases. That is why we have guys sitting around nodding when their family members 'buy' ginseng. The penalties on the diggers need to be stiff for early digging, which means the penalties for holding ginseng over will be stiff also. Bet you all didn't see that coming did you? You all talk about dealers skinning the poor diggers, but don't realize it is a bigger picture out here. You cannot bust someone for early digging if it is ok to hold uncertified ginseng during the closed season. Period.


I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just point out that no matter what anyone says or anyone does, there is going to be someone else negatively affected and who won't like it. This is a hugely complex problem. We are battling to a large part human nature here. There will always be a way to cheat the system, so no one solution or position will solve the problem. The key is to make small moves which negatively affect as few people as possible, but which cumulatively will affect the behavior we want to see changed. The trick is to do that without getting people buried in regulations and jambing them up unless they clearly have intentionally violated the laws.

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 10 months ago #33830

still a free country everyone should have the right to sell there roots how ever they wish with no advantage given to buyer or digger .with the market trends toward quality it will soon dictate what root will be worth digging anyway and diggers will be forced to leave the small and young growing because they want have any place to sell it.

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 9 months ago #33842

I been digging sang for 45 years and have never sold it green and aint gonna start now,also don't need the government involed in it we see what happens when they get involed in other things.

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Re:How do we stop illegal digging out of season? 2 years 9 months ago #33843

I shot at a Census worker one time for digging ginseng out of season on my front porch

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