TOPIC: Moral dilemma

Billy wrote:

Wild ginseng drops its seed from the pod to the ground by nature it sprouts into untilled,unfertilised,undisturbed ground. It then begins to grow by digging into the ground and sprouting forth tiny hair roots on its on,thus causing the rings to develop on the root having to grow around,past,threw rock,other stronger older roots (trees,cohosh,golden seasl,etc)the wild ginseng is considered wild because it naturaly lives grows and survives natures intent for it to develop into what it is - Wild Ginseng.

Wild simulated ginseng is as close as it gets to wild and although I do not sell wild simulated ginseng I do not see much differnce in the roots if it is truly wild simulated.
Let me exsplain

Wild simulated would be done the same as all wild ginseng,the seed took to the woods,planted only by raking back the surface enough to plant it,just like wild ginseng.
Like take a screw driver make a 1/2 inch whole and drop it into it then rake the leaves back over and leave it alone,thus causing the rings to develop on the root having to grow around,past,threw rock,other stronger older roots (trees,cohosh,golden seasl,etc)that is true wild simulated ginseng and is as close as you can get to wild ginseng,there is not much difference at all even though the market makes a distinct difference in price value the actual difference is minimum.

There is no other way to have wild ginseng or wild simulated than this.

Any other way it is grown,especialy in pots,swimming pools,tilled ground surfaces that remove or do not include natures intended obstacles like the rock,roots,etc that force the ginseng seedling to form its natural form and state of being into exsitance is not wild or wild simulated ginseng.

In My Opinion.

Im going to prove this if the good Lord lets me live long enough.I will tell you this I have planted for the first time stratified seed this past season and when it is mature (that will be at least 7 years from now)I am going to take both the wild ginseng by nature and the seed I planted by it to be anilized for the complete make up of the two roots and then I will no beyond doubght if I am right.

Billy.

Billy - agreed. And I do think that is how you would read KY's new regulations. We worked months on how to define this in a legal sense.

After thinking on it overnight and reading the responses, I'd still say under Kentucky regulations, ginseng in the situation presented would be called woodsgrown.

Billy, in my opinion this is a very touchy topic. And to be honest wild-simulated is just a word which allows dealers to lower the price tremendously and for them to be able to buy wild looking roots at a cheaper price therefore in my opinion ripping someone off.

I have for years mixed in wild simulated roots with wild and sold for wild prices and have yet to have a complaint and honestly just all praises. The only way i wouldn't do this is if the buyer wanted strictly wild roots, because i really am an honest person.

This goes back to the topic i posted on here a couple of years ago. What is actuallly wild seng. Which i know the answer but if we keep going back to the same places every year or every other year all we are digging is just wild simulated with a truly wild root here and their. Because we are just planting our own seeds.

And really Billy i have never been able to tell a wild from wild simulated that i have grown. The only difference i have ever seen is a root that came tilled grown or a fertilized root.

But this is a very touchy subject and thats just my opinion.

Interesting thoughts guys. I have no knowledge of KY ginseng regulations, but find this interesting. Just accross the Ohio river, One year old rootlets transplanted to the wild would be considered wild plants according to Ohio regulations. I have no first hand knowledge of this, but would not think that appearance wise that there would be a lot of difference between truly wild roots and one year old transplants left to grow on their own for 10-12 years. I believe that the stress rings would develop during those 10-12 years battling nature on their own ( you know,growing through, around, and past other roots, rocks etc...) . I could be wrong about this, but these are my thoughts.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not disputing that ginseng that is grown in loose soil has a distinctly different appearance than those grown in untilled soil in the woods, but not sure how much one year off and twelve years on would make a difference in appearance.

kyjabber wrote:

Billy wrote:

Wild ginseng drops its seed from the pod to the ground by nature it sprouts into untilled,unfertilised,undisturbed ground. It then begins to grow by digging into the ground and sprouting forth tiny hair roots on its on,thus causing the rings to develop on the root having to grow around,past,threw rock,other stronger older roots (trees,cohosh,golden seasl,etc)the wild ginseng is considered wild because it naturaly lives grows and survives natures intent for it to develop into what it is - Wild Ginseng.

Wild simulated ginseng is as close as it gets to wild and although I do not sell wild simulated ginseng I do not see much differnce in the roots if it is truly wild simulated.
Let me exsplain

Wild simulated would be done the same as all wild ginseng,the seed took to the woods,planted only by raking back the surface enough to plant it,just like wild ginseng.
Like take a screw driver make a 1/2 inch whole and drop it into it then rake the leaves back over and leave it alone,thus causing the rings to develop on the root having to grow around,past,threw rock,other stronger older roots (trees,cohosh,golden seasl,etc)that is true wild simulated ginseng and is as close as you can get to wild ginseng,there is not much difference at all even though the market makes a distinct difference in price value the actual difference is minimum.

There is no other way to have wild ginseng or wild simulated than this.

Any other way it is grown,especialy in pots,swimming pools,tilled ground surfaces that remove or do not include natures intended obstacles like the rock,roots,etc that force the ginseng seedling to form its natural form and state of being into exsitance is not wild or wild simulated ginseng.

In My Opinion.

Im going to prove this if the good Lord lets me live long enough.I will tell you this I have planted for the first time stratified seed this past season and when it is mature (that will be at least 7 years from now)I am going to take both the wild ginseng by nature and the seed I planted by it to be anilized for the complete make up of the two roots and then I will no beyond doubght if I am right.

Billy.

Billy - agreed. And I do think that is how you would read KY's new regulations. We worked months on how to define this in a legal sense.

After thinking on it overnight and reading the responses, I'd still say under Kentucky regulations, ginseng in the situation presented would be called woodsgrown.

For every one growing ginseng, we need to have a definate answer on what the rules are. If I plant ginseng from seeds or rootlets, in tilled or untilled soil on private property, I believe they cant be considered wild no matter how they look. If they ever make it illegal to harvest wild ginseng are we not going to be able to dig our ginseng we planted?

Although it would not make sense to dig woodsgrown roots out of wild ginseng season, unless there was disease or something, I still believe it should be up to the grower to do what they want with it. We planted it, it is ours.

With all of that said, I sure do agree we need to protect wild ginseng and follow all of the regulations.

Lenno

hillbilly wrote:

Billy, in my opinion this is a very touchy topic. And to be honest wild-simulated is just a word which allows dealers to lower the price tremendously and for them to be able to buy wild looking roots at a cheaper price therefore in my opinion ripping someone off.

I have for years mixed in wild simulated roots with wild and sold for wild prices and have yet to have a complaint and honestly just all praises. The only way i wouldn't do this is if the buyer wanted strictly wild roots, because i really am an honest person.

This goes back to the topic i posted on here a couple of years ago. What is actuallly wild seng. Which i know the answer but if we keep going back to the same places every year or every other year all we are digging is just wild simulated with a truly wild root here and their. Because we are just planting our own seeds.

And really Billy i have never been able to tell a wild from wild simulated that i have grown. The only difference i have ever seen is a root that came tilled grown or a fertilized root.

But this is a very touchy subject and thats just my opinion.

I agree with you on this hillbilly. What adds to the confusion on this topic is that we are dealing with State regulation definitions. What Ohio would call a wild root Kentucky would classify as woods grown? I'm refering to state regulations not diggers and dealers definitions. Most of us know what a good wild looking root looks like and that's what the buyers are looking for. They don't know how it was grown, just what it looks like when they get it.

Lenno, The problem is that each state has it's own set of rules governing ginseng. The definate answer in one state may be the complete opposite in another. The way Ohio laws are set up you are right, I'm screwed if digging wild roots is ever prohibited. I planted some stratified seed for the first time last fall, and even though I didn't have great success I'm planning on getting some more planted this fall. According to Ohio regulations these are still considered wild. I don't like it, but that is how it is here.

lenno wrote:

For every one growing ginseng, we need to have a definate answer on what the rules are. If I plant ginseng from seeds or rootlets, in tilled or untilled soil on private property, I believe they cant be considered wild no matter how they look. If they ever make it illegal to harvest wild ginseng are we not going to be able to dig our ginseng we planted?

Although it would not make sense to dig woodsgrown roots out of wild ginseng season, unless there was disease or something, I still believe it should be up to the grower to do what they want with it. We planted it, it is ours.

With all of that said, I sure do agree we need to protect wild ginseng and follow all of the regulations.

Lenno

HEY BILLY,

On your wild simulated view I agree 100%. To keep that wild look it has to fight for its life.

I also keep receipts on stratified seeds. You may need them one of these days!

rootman

I was at another friends house for an \"adult beverage\" get together. There were several people there and this guy and I started talking sang. He lived just down the road and he took me to show me his \"setup\". He had about an acre of ground behind his house fenced in that he grew his sang in. He lived ON a mountain with pretty much the perfect place to grow it. From what I gathered his big sang in the pots was where he got his seeds from and why they were in pots (1/2 gal black containers like flowers come in) I do not know because he didn't tell me. He did say that he started the seed in the blue kiddy pools because he can \"control\" them better and it makes digging up the year old roots a \"piece of cake\". He did NOT say anything about planting on public land but, I would bet that he does because there is tons of it around here. So, assuming from what he said and I saw he must plant some seeds as well as transplanting the started roots in the pool. I am more interested now and would like to talk to him again but, then again I'm afraid if what he's doing is illegal I don't want to assosiate with him. What I felt was that this guy is putting a ton of plants back into the woods that would most likely never see even a fraction of that much sang if left to do it on it's own but, in the same token is going out when ever he pleases and digging older valuable roots. Maybe he feels he is doing more for the plant by \"putting back more than he takes\". I don't know I just had mixed feelings about the situation.

Just looking at what he said to your questions..

==
\"son their ain't no season on sang or nothin else on private land\". and then \"prove that my roots had green berries when I dug em\".
==

And then what you said after those statements...

==
he was still poaching sang from the wild
==

Does not sound good to me.

There is a season on seng (wild seng harvested for resale) on private land in Tennessee. Owning the land does not exempt you from the legal harvest dates.

His second statement sure sounds like he has been digging roots from plants that had green berries or perhaps even before berries were set, and for resale. He said \"roots\".
If he is collecting those from public or private land, even land that he owns, and it is wild seng collected for resale then he is breaking the law.

Now if he is talking about seng that he planted himself from bought seed or bought rootlets on his own property or property that he has permission to be growing wild simulated on, then I agree that he has the right to harvest those when ever he wants.

From what I can see in your description of the situation, it does not sound like that is the case though.

TNhunter